the only advantage to a hook is it wont twist in the loop and bragging points
you really arent missing out on anything
O.C.G.D. Thread, part two
- Thread starter Paul B
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you really arent missing out on anything
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
You're probably right about that. Actually, I know you're right. I've been under-trusting the Caritool and the ghetto hooks. What I have been doing (and forgot to mention) is I've been also usually just clipping my saw to my right hip-D since I don't really ever use them except for temporary climbing lanyard storage. But as soon as I actually go to use my lanyard, it gets connected to my lower-Ds. Once in a great while, like if I'm on a really vertical spar, it can be beneficial to use my hip-D's, but those are so old fashioned and not nearly as ergonomic as the lower-D's and won't hurt as much if you gaff out. That's just how I feel about it. A lot of production saddles still don't have lower-D's, which I think is really a shame except for those who are nostalgic for antiquity. =-D
Burnham
Woods walker
Or nostalgic for the proper use of a lanyard for spur climbing, perhaps 
. Your comment that hip D's are not ergonomic is complete bs.
. Your comment that hip D's are not ergonomic is complete bs.
i use my upper d‘s almost exclusively pruning and removals). sure they are not as ergonomic when free hanging but my balace-point is slightly off, i‘m tip-heavy
Its not bs...Or nostalgic for the proper use of a lanyard for spur climbing, perhaps
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Or nostalgic for the proper use of a lanyard for spur climbing, perhaps
Well, @Burnham, did it ever occur to you that some of us may spend 90% of their time climbing without spurs? I'm entitled to my opinion, sir! To be fair, I should have made it clear that I was mostly discussing my genre of climbing, which is that of a hobbyist, who climbs thriving trees whose cambium layer must be protected. There exist some hobbyists who climb with spurs (recreationally...not for a removal), and on healthy trees no less, but they deserve to be shot. Again, just my personal opinions.
Don't hate! Appreciate!
Burnham
Woods walker
I'm not hating, I'm just saying you are mistaken when you make a blanket statement like that . As is @WoodCutr.
It is bs because whether or not you find a lower or higher D location to be more comfortable is largely dependent on how your own body balances, i.e. more weight up higher or down lower.
It's not that a particular D location is ergonomic or not...it's about where the individual's cob is located.
. As is @WoodCutr.It is bs because whether or not you find a lower or higher D location to be more comfortable is largely dependent on how your own body balances, i.e. more weight up higher or down lower.
It's not that a particular D location is ergonomic or not...it's about where the individual's cob is located.
Mick!
TreeHouser
‘hobbyist’
So am I. We just have differing opinions and that's OK
Only sorta, i was removing this dead oak when you sent that lol
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Is this supposed to be the world's shortest joke? Why are you isolating the word "hobbyist?" My guess is that it has nothing to do with my word choice. There are a huge array of different recreational climbing styles (haha, would you prefer I use the term "recreational?") In retrospect, I much prefer it to "hobbyist." Hobbyist sounds kind of lame. There exist many different ways to climb recreationally, wiith many incorporating predominantly rock climbing and rescue techniques. I've chosen the path of greatest purity, which is to climb the same way all of you do, with zero deviations in technique or equipment. As far as actual climbing is concerned, and moving around in the tree, the only notable difference between what I spend my free time doing and what you all do professionally is that I don't usually carry a saw or make cuts (with the exception of dead or nuisance branches or pointy nubs cut with a hand saw as part of my safety protocol) or wear spurs (90% of the time).
Like I said, I have no clue what you actually meant, and I'm making zero assumptions and I'm not putting any words in your mouth. Instinctively, however, I felt the need to defend my sport because my gut has me making certain inferences.
I didn't actually believe you were being hateful. That's just something people say...or at least something I say with a playful tone.I'm not hating, I'm just saying you are mistaken when you make a blanket statement like that
It is bs because whether or not you find a lower or higher D location to be more comfortable is largely dependent on how your own body balances, i.e. more weight up higher or down lower.
It's not that a particular D location is ergonomic or not...it's about where the individual's cob is located.
All I said was that I don't, personally, use the side-D's and that, for me, personally, I do not find them to be as ergonomic as the lower-D's. You're making the mistake of believing that I was stating what I said as a matter of fact, when in actuality, it was said as a matter of opinion. My opinion was that the lower-D's work better for me. If you had responded by asking me what my opinion regarding those two pairs of hardware for someone who climbs with spikes and makes cuts all day on spars and stems, using a steel core flip line instead of a lanyard, I would have told you that the side-D's are a quintessential element of a climber's harness and that, due to how the upper D's allow a climber to better maintain an upright position while on spurs (as you mentioned: balance; which is a pretty obvious difference between the upper and lower Ds), in that particular case, the upper D's would be equally, if not more ergonomic than the lower-D's depending on any given job.
As far as I'm concerned, precisely how the lower and upper D's affect your center of balance (and relative to the application for which they will be used) is in large part exactly what makes each set of hardware ergonomic. In other words, each is ergonomic (predominantly) due to how they influence a climber's work positioning and center of balance.
NOTE: Definitely not being argumentative. I'm enjoying this conversation and, please, if you didn't already, read both parts of this post with a positive, friendly tone.
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Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Also, be careful how you read my final sentence in my first post about this subject, which reads as follows...
"A lot of production saddles still don't have lower-D's, which I think is really a shame except for those who are nostalgic for antiquity."
I wasn't saying that using side-D's makes a person an antique, I was saying that not owning a saddle that has lower D's is old fashioned...in my opinion.
"A lot of production saddles still don't have lower-D's, which I think is really a shame except for those who are nostalgic for antiquity."
I wasn't saying that using side-D's makes a person an antique, I was saying that not owning a saddle that has lower D's is old fashioned...in my opinion.
Burnham
Woods walker
Seems you and Mick agree
.In a sense. Yes
The only ones I've seen without lower d's are my old notch sentry, and the weaver belts that my local shop sells
The lower d's are far more comfortable and allow for much more angle on your flipline before it yanks the saddle up and into your ribcage, like today, kinda a sketchy situation I was in and had to have my flipline almost vertical/twisted around to where I'm facing away from the spar, wouldn't be comfortable with side d's
But, I started rec climbing years ago with a rock climbing harness, any modern ish arborist saddle beats that
For me at least the lower ones cup under your butt more since they are attached to your leg loops, making hanging in them far more comfortable. I'm lazy so i like sitting/ hanging a bunch, hence i use my lowers a bunch. They also allow for more twisting movement without adjusting your lanyard since it's below your hips a bit, and if you're working at bad line angles from your tie in they provide hanging support which for me is more comfortable. If you don't have much climb line support because of a long or higher limb walk or awkward tie in spot the lower ds make your lanyard feel like a climb line, since that's where your rope bridge attaches. Your stability in your working position comes from the different line angles canceling each other holding you in place, with you either hanging or standing against the force, there's a bit of twisting stability from the lanyard going around the tree but it's not as much as the side ds.
The side ds are on your waist belt, while not nearly as comfy for hanging on by themselves are more secure at keeping you in place since they limit your body twisting, not to mention they keep your upper body closer and support your lower back when leaning back more like you would be using a saw. On limb walks they can keep your upper body where it needs to be to do the work, making the job easier on your body. On spurs they allow back support when sticking your butt out like you're supposed to, they almost force you to. I often like both at the same time too, the lower holding me in the general area (basically acting as a second climb line helping with a less than ideal tie in point) and the upper to help hold my upper body in position making it easier on my back when doing the work. I use a super long double lanyard just for this, and if I'm passing limbs it's very nice to have two different ds so each lanyard setup has their own ds. Going from a lower to a side one is also sometimes handy, just depends on what you need for support to be able to get comfy. They both have their place, both help with ergonomics when working, so use the best tool for the situation.
Most older guys ran nothing but side ds for decades, if they wanted something like a lower d would be they ran it as another climb line hookup cause honestly that's pretty much what it is (if they had a butt harness and weren't running just a belt). Your climb line connects to a rope bridge, which connects to... the lower ds, which connects your leg support to your harness. A rope bridge adds more twisting ability so comparitively the lower ds feel like a lanyard attachment because they resist that twisting movement, but on an old school single point attachment harness it is the same thing as a climb line, the load goes to the exact same spot on the harness. On a 4d harness you could even separate the different climb line ds and tie in to each individually like a lanyard, which is literally the exact same thing as lower ds on a modern saddle. Which also goes to show there's really not much new in the world ever, just slightly different variations of the same ideas, we all stand on the backs of everyone who came before. So understand that they understand, and try to learn from them because they've done it far more and for far longer, that's the beauty of this place. Not saying a less experienced guy's ideas are necessarily wrong or worth less, but please realize that there are people here of a certain skill level that most people who do this stuff for a living will never attain, Lord knows i never will.
The side ds are on your waist belt, while not nearly as comfy for hanging on by themselves are more secure at keeping you in place since they limit your body twisting, not to mention they keep your upper body closer and support your lower back when leaning back more like you would be using a saw. On limb walks they can keep your upper body where it needs to be to do the work, making the job easier on your body. On spurs they allow back support when sticking your butt out like you're supposed to, they almost force you to. I often like both at the same time too, the lower holding me in the general area (basically acting as a second climb line helping with a less than ideal tie in point) and the upper to help hold my upper body in position making it easier on my back when doing the work. I use a super long double lanyard just for this, and if I'm passing limbs it's very nice to have two different ds so each lanyard setup has their own ds. Going from a lower to a side one is also sometimes handy, just depends on what you need for support to be able to get comfy. They both have their place, both help with ergonomics when working, so use the best tool for the situation.
Most older guys ran nothing but side ds for decades, if they wanted something like a lower d would be they ran it as another climb line hookup cause honestly that's pretty much what it is (if they had a butt harness and weren't running just a belt). Your climb line connects to a rope bridge, which connects to... the lower ds, which connects your leg support to your harness. A rope bridge adds more twisting ability so comparitively the lower ds feel like a lanyard attachment because they resist that twisting movement, but on an old school single point attachment harness it is the same thing as a climb line, the load goes to the exact same spot on the harness. On a 4d harness you could even separate the different climb line ds and tie in to each individually like a lanyard, which is literally the exact same thing as lower ds on a modern saddle. Which also goes to show there's really not much new in the world ever, just slightly different variations of the same ideas, we all stand on the backs of everyone who came before. So understand that they understand, and try to learn from them because they've done it far more and for far longer, that's the beauty of this place. Not saying a less experienced guy's ideas are necessarily wrong or worth less, but please realize that there are people here of a certain skill level that most people who do this stuff for a living will never attain, Lord knows i never will.
Eric H-L
Treehouser
Freskaro strikes again!
I take Cory’s disappointment seriously. This week I needed some non-rated but still strong and full size carabiners for holding electrical cables out of the way. I was so happy with the miniature Freskaros that I bought the 15 kn “big brother”. I didn’t even check the description to see the size! I have included the Petzl OK and the tiny Freskaro for comparison. I was very surprised they were not what I expected! It’s the same size as a typical keychain carabiner.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I could use some of those for light duty speedlining.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Double-whip tackle
Kaveman
Treehouser
Hey there, let me know how you like the electric echo! I made the switch from Stihl to Echo top handles, about a year ago. Great saws, the 355t is the best topping saw I've used in years.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
2500t is not a powerful as the 2511t.
I rarely get out my Stihl 193t or 200t, anymore. The latter comes when I need speed and power for leaning pieces, sometimes (if I don't use a rear-handle).
More commonly, I'll use cuts for leaners rather than rely on power alone.
I rarely get out my Stihl 193t or 200t, anymore. The latter comes when I need speed and power for leaning pieces, sometimes (if I don't use a rear-handle).
More commonly, I'll use cuts for leaners rather than rely on power alone.
Kaveman
Treehouser
When I helped my cousin with that big pine last week, I got to use his 201t. No woo pow. Much swearing. A friend sent up his fairly new 194t. Again, no woo pow. Teach me not to bring my Echo. 355t FTW!
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