How'd it go today?

[squisher]

I have no doubt about it.


I really am a top driver.

 

[squisher]

Myself today. I climbed.............onto my roof and laid a 20x30 tarp over one section. I hate to say it but I had a buddy stop by last fall, couple actually to help me install my new wood stove and I put a liner down the chimney. Well my one buddy who's a bean pole refused to come up on the roof with me but my other body was all like eager and wanting to climb up and give me a hand. He's a big dude. Well that was the last straw for my old shake roof I think. The spot it started leaking was an area that he had walked over and I hadn't. So now.......a new roof.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It's the bean pole's fault!

 

[Fiddler]

Wish I was close enough to help you out Squish. I still remember more about roofing than I'll ever learn about tree work.

 

[squisher]

Ahh. The roof is donesky. I wish I knew more about roofing. I want to go metal and I don't know if it should go over the shakes or not. Only one layer. Any thoughts offhand? I've heard you can do stripping and then lay the metal. Rip along the bottom shingles and put a 'face' board to hide them at the bottom and then just remove the ridge shingles and then vent it through the ridge?

I know one good roofer who I've put a call into, thinking this is one I might leave to a pro. But if for some reason I can't get him. I'm uncertain almost considering researching and doing it myself?

 

[Fiddler]

Metal isn't real hard to do and it can go over other roofing. Did many barns in it...good long lasting product. It is a 2-3 man job usually depending on the roof difficulty/pitch etc. The pieces can get heavy if they are very long.
Sometimes stripping can give you a straighter finished product but we usually just shimmed low spots up or ran new nailing boards & shims over the old roof.

price runs about same or touch less than shingles for the straight pieces...then you get slammed for all the accessories like end covers, cap, valley, etc.

You should be able to order the pieces cut to length. not a ton of tools involved - nippers, snips, hammer.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I will defer to the experts on here, but I heard from a few guys that had to remove their steel roofs after they put them on because they left the old roofing and put the steel over it.

Insurance co. would not insure the house because the old roofing was left underneath.

 

[Fiddler]

Yep, always want to check the codes in your area before doing any exterior work on a building.

 

[Cobleskill]

I just put metal on two old swayed back houses this fall/winter. I shimmed them up to make them look nice-almost as much time as putting the metal on. If you just plan on roofing one pitch it is hard to tie into a valley.

Your stove pipe roof flange is much simpler with shingles. They make a ring boot that does the job on metal but it sucks. There is a better boot that looks like a metal roof flange for shingles, but finding one is hard.

If you don't put 2x4 nailers down you will have to lower your gutter so it doesn't get ripped off, or put snow feet, ice catchers on. The good ones are $5 each. Adds up fast.

Shingles have come way down since oil dropped. I like a metal roof better, but... Another point is you can shingle a roof yourself, but you need at least one helper on metal.

Metal should outlast asphalt by a good margin. When it comes time to put a new roof on after metal you can take it to the scrap yard and get money instead of a dumpster. Not that it makes much difference to us at our age.

 

[Reddog]

If I was doing another house in steel again I would use the metal panels that look like shakes or slate. They are easier to handle.

We laid steel hardy panels on my BIL's house, put 1/4" foam down to protect the backside of the steel. Seems to be working fine a few years later.

Myself I would do a full tearoff and get the good underlayment for it. Then you should never have to touch it again in your lifetime.

 

[Steve Mack]

I took some metal roofing to the dump today, it's always been free until this week. $185 a ton now to tip, did a quick u turn out of there and went to the scrap yard. That's always been 1 ton minimum to get paid, as from next week it's 1 ton or more or go away.

It's sure getting hard around here.

 

[squisher]

Hmm. As many varied opinions here as I've seen on the net. Things I wonder about are I've read a bit that if I tear off all the cedar shakes on there that:
1. It's a lot more work and mess to deal with.
2. I'll lose insulation value or have to add some insulation or otherwise to make up for it. Under my single layer of shakes is horizontal stripping across the trusses. There is no sheathing or nothing under it. So if I rip off the shakes I'm literally down to trusses with horizontal stripping.
3. Incidentally I've read of many people that have gone over shakes and have said it made a big difference in heat retention/insulation. In a positive way.

So I don't want to do a whole bunch of extra work to essentially make my roof less insulated. I also have a friend who had a shake roof covered with metal and had no issues but he's since sold the house too.

I believe here we can go over one layer of old roofing but would confirm that with the local law.

My roof is very small and very simple. I'll try to get a couple pictures of it today and maybe some of y'all could let me know what you think? I've got one masonry interior chimney, and one natural gas chimney as well as two or maybe three pipe vents and then there's five or six roof vents existing just below the ridge all on one side.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[squisher]

If I was doing another house in steel again I would use the metal panels that look like shakes or slate. They are easier to handle.

We laid steel hardy panels on my BIL's house, put 1/4" foam down to protect the backside of the steel. Seems to be working fine a few years later.

Myself I would do a full tearoff and get the good underlayment for it. Then you should never have to touch it again in your lifetime.

I'm unfamiliar with that product. I do like the idea of the traditional sort of metal roof. I'd like the snow to all slide off if possible.

With a full tear off for me down to my horizontal stripping on the trusses I'm unclear what sort of underlayment I would need?

 

[squisher]

I could also just stick with tarps?

 

[FireFighterZero]

What ever you do, tell your ins. co. You should get a break for using fire resistant roofing material.

Well, tarps and shakes dont count.

I am not sure I buy the insulation argument.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Thinking about it, I havent seen a roof like yours Justin.

Here I have 5/8 plywood with a tar paper sheet on that. Then cedar.

 

[Cobleskill]

Most old wood roofs around here have the slat board pattern. I think it is to let them dry out from the bottom. Red Cedar is so pricey around here it is rare to see it going on anymore.

 

[squisher]

I know unfortunately less about insulating then I do about roofing. But it makes sense to me that if the shake layer was in there it would insulate better? No? We live in a very dry climate here besides some seasonal rains, I can't see the shakes rotting or nothing unless maybe it wasn't ventilated properly which is what I think the ripping off of the ridge shingles and using a vented type ridge on the metal is all about?

I don't want to f-ck anything up if I do it myself but I don't want to create a ton of extra work unless it's really justified to remove those shakes.

I really wish the roofer I called would give me a shout back. He's done a lot of roofs I've seen personally and been in business most of my life. I'd be really comfortable giving him the work but I'm leery to deal with anyone else. I know he did the metal over shake roof on my buddies old place, so I know he will go over the shakes at least in some instances.

 

[squisher]

Thinking about it, I havent seen a roof like yours Justin.

Here I have 5/8 plywood with a tar paper sheet on that. Then cedar.

This is what I'm kind of wondering. If I rip off, do I need to sheath it in plywood and then apply the metal to get any sort of insulation value? That seems like a ton more work than just going over top.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

If it were me and my calculation for sheeting the roof came out high enough, I would buy a mill (justified by the cost) and have some guys drop some logs on me and make 1X boards to sheet with out of pine. True 1". Then I would metal roof over that. Just anal I guess. I like working with flat boards and not trying to lay metal over bumpy stuff.

 

[squisher]

I won't be buying a mill. Unfortunately.

I'll have to research it all a bit more I suppose. I'll get some pics today and maybe start a separate thread.


I'm not really opposed to ripping it all off and sheathing in plywood if that's the superior method. But I'll have to satisfy myself that I'm not just wasting the last bit of inherent value that the shakes have left in them?

 

[Cobleskill]

I have done some research on putting metal down over shingles. They say you can put down 30# felt and lay it down on that. You have to locate and chalk line your slats so you don't screw into any voids.
Running a string from side to side and top to bottom to see how flat your deck is is a good place to start.
Never heard anything about codes or insurance problems around here. It would be nice to talk to the guy you trust.

 

[Fiddler]

Where you insulate depends on what type of ceiling you have mostly. Generally you want air to circulate under the roof (in the attic) to prevent condensation in and over-heating of the roof. Insulation is usually (but not always) against the ceiling, and air against the roof.

If the ceiling is the roof, then you would insulate the roof.

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Insulate the ceiling of the living space, which is the floor of the attic, rather than the ceiling in the attic. Not climate controlling the attic, but rather letting it breathe.