Tree felling vids

[Burnham]

I'm pretty sure that making an error like that hasn't been addressed...and it is surely no different with a conventional face that the same mistake has been made on. It is one of the most common errors in forming a correct face.

Any tree that has somewhat flexible and strong fiber, like most western conifers both alive and fairly recent dead , will not break the hinge until the face closes whether that face is narrow or wide. Not that that observation changes your point @davidwyby. The gun will still be affected.

I also think that if your mistake is consistent, you can learn to not make it fairly easily.

But even so, I believe it's an easy thing to fix that after you knock the face piece out.

 

[davidwyby]

I'm pretty sure that making an error like that hasn't been addressed...and it is surely no different with a conventional face that the same mistake has been made on. It is one of the most common errors in forming a correct face.

I think conventionals tend to be more open, easier to see and line up cuts on, and easier to notice a bad face and fix. I also think have the sloping cut off on a conventional is less likely to buck the tree sideways than if it’s in the stump.

🤔 I think there is a “good” side to the coin as well…that transitional point between the hinge flexing and the face closing to the face being closed and the hinge converting to pulling steers the tree. If one does get it right, there is more assurance of hitting the desired lay.

Any tree that has somewhat flexible and strong fiber, like most western conifers both alive and fairly recent dead , will not break the hinge until the face closes whether that face is narrow or wide. Not that that observation changes your point @davidwyby. The gun will still be affected.

With the stuff I usually cut, I’m happy if the face gets half way closed before the hinge breaks 😆

I also think that if your mistake is consistent, you can learn to not make it fairly easily.

But even so, I believe it's an easy thing to fix that after you knock the face piece out.

Yes and yes, just gap the other side…square ground chain FTW!

 

[davidwyby]

Continuing watching BC falling, one guy did his Humboldt sloping cut before his gunning cut. I may have to try that.

 

[SeanKroll]

Idk, humboldts can be seen into, if you look.

You get good at what you do.


I just dumped a big, dead fir with sweep. My gunning cut was below horizontal to cut perpendicular to fiber.
I came out overshooting on the conventional cut. Beat the face out with an ax. May have pulled a little. Dunno. The lay was 20⁰ wide or more, so not tight.

 

[davidwyby]

Yeah I guess most of my point was that I feel it should be pointed out to newbies to pay more attention when humboldting, such as in the training videos.

 

[SeanKroll]

Shaving hinge-bark down to wood is a help for beginners.

When in obstacle- rich areas, when having to strongly wedge rotten or dead trees, along with split-prone trees, I'll frequently shave bark to watch what the wood is doing, where cracks are developing, watching for tensile failure (better term, anyone?) of the hinge from lifting without enough tipping/rotating of the log, etc.

 

[SeanKroll]

Newer fellers are also commonly newer saw operators and saw filers.

Learning to fell with a beat- up chain complicates things for newer fellers.

 

[SeanKroll]

I'm pretty sure that making an error like that hasn't been addressed...and it is surely no different with a conventional face that the same mistake has been made on. It is one of the most common errors in forming a correct face.

Any tree that has somewhat flexible and strong fiber, like most western conifers both alive and fairly recent dead , will not break the hinge until the face closes whether that face is narrow or wide. Not that that observation changes your point @davidwyby.
I also think that if your mistake is consistent, you can learn to not make it fairly easily.

Agreed.
Consistently aiming off in the same way is easier to correct than having errors every which way.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

🤔 I think there is a “good” side to the coin as well…that transitional point between the hinge flexing and the face closing to the face being closed and the hinge converting to pulling steers the tree. If one does get it right, there is more assurance of hitting the desired lay.

You can use a face like that to your advantage if you need the tree to swing a little or hold longer on the up hill side of the lean. The gap takes longer to close and holds longer in flex of fiber vs the tighter apex corner.. If you are not trying to thread a needle, you can even adjust the face a little as needed.
Never had one swing so hard it screwed the lay. Just adjust your gun and face etc.

 

[Nutball]

Never had one swing so hard it screwed the lay.

As long as it is a whole tree. If it's just a log, it can very well make a hard turn.

 

[davidwyby]

You can use a face like that to your advantage if you need the tree to swing a little or hold longer on the up hill side of the lean. The gap takes longer to close and holds longer in flex of fiber vs the tighter apex corner.. If you are not trying to thread a needle, you can even adjust the face a little as needed.
Never had one swing so hard it screwed the lay. Just adjust your gun and face etc.

Oh yeah…I try swinging stuff every chance I get. Haven’t gotten to try this yet:

 

[davidwyby]

This brings up another question:

I watched a timber felling instructional video where the formula was basically to measure how many feet offset the top of the tree is from the bottom, and then adjust your gun/lay that many feet to compensate. Apparently it works well for the faller.

So then I wondered ok, at one point do we go to “cheats” like angled back cuts, dutchmen, sizwheels? Or use those instead of adjusting the gun?

One fella said he does not compensate his aim for lean, he guns his desired lay and then adds cheats to help the tree hold and hit it. Too many “cheats” can pull the tree over more than we want…hard to quantify.

I suppose it’s a matter of how bad the tree leans, different ways to skin a cat, judgement and experience.

 

[Burnham]

@davidwyby I will refer you back to another of your threads wherein I addressed this line of approach to tree falling. Remember my reference to "gimmick" cuts?

Sizdutch Wyby variation

Itchin to get to try this. Meantime, if someone else can, try it and let me know. Thoughts?

www.masterblasterhome.com

 

[CurSedVoyce]

As long as it is a whole tree. If it's just a log, it can very well make a hard turn.

True

 

[davidwyby]

@davidwyby I will refer you back to another of your threads wherein I addressed this line of approach to tree falling. Remember my reference to "gimmick" cuts?

Sizdutch Wyby variation

Itchin to get to try this. Meantime, if someone else can, try it and let me know. Thoughts?

www.masterblasterhome.com

I thought old guys were supposed to have less memory than younger ones? 😆Mine is notoriously terrible though…and I’m not young any more.

 

[davidwyby]

@davidwyby I will refer you back to another of your threads wherein I addressed this line of approach to tree falling. Remember my reference to "gimmick" cuts?

Sizdutch Wyby variation

Itchin to get to try this. Meantime, if someone else can, try it and let me know. Thoughts?

www.masterblasterhome.com

….so if no gimmick cuts, what? Adjust gun? Is a tapered hinge a gimmick?

 

[Burnham]

@davidwyby Don't misunderstand me...I have never tried to say that one should not attempt to influence a fell with these types of techniques. What I have tried to say is that the degree to which one can expect response from a tree to them is highly variable and never exactly repeatable, so counting on a specific response in a situation when it is important to put a tree "right there" is a risky proposition.

I'd always chose to adjust my gun over any other solution. A tapered hinge is a pretty minor level of gimmick in my book but is still somewhat unreliable in giving a specific response. I like a German cut, or a sizwell, as much as anyone else, and have used them. But I'd not try to tell myself I know what I'm going to get on any one specific tree, nor would I teach those to any sawyer who was not very well experienced.

 

[davidwyby]

I think there are levels of unpredictability…tapered hinge, not so big a deal. Sizwheel, same. May hold, may not. Where I think it gets sketchy is Dutchmen. How much is too much, will the siz hold that much Dutch? If it does, how much is it going to overshoot?

I have a little formula I use, at least it gives me a somewhat repeatable baseline.

I cut the gunning cut at an angle that is average between the lean and the lay. Usually trying to swing 90° to the lay. Then I put my Humboldt undercut in aimed at the lay, maybe add a sizwheel.

 

[cory]

Dave have you read some of Jed's old threads re cutting and felling? Mad info in there

 

[davidwyby]

Dave have you read some of Jed's old threads re cutting and felling? Mad info in there

I’m probably due for an update or refresher. 😆 been rummaging around online and dragging out books. Seem to have misplaced my thumb drives of Jerry’s vids.

 

[davidwyby]

 

[davidwyby]

 

[Burnham]

What the hey?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Pretty high humboldt. Looking for good wood?

 

[davidwyby]

I think it’s the drummer from def leppard