Burnham
Woods walker
Agreed.
Tree felling vids
- Thread starter Reddog
- Start date
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Mick!
TreeHouser
I don’t think there’s anyone (including himself) who doesn’t blame the climber.
Some peeps (not me) say it’s fake.
Some peeps (not me) say it’s fake.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
No way is that fake.... just listen to the saw... clearly the chain brake kicked in from the jerking motion when the line pins his arm.
Mick!
TreeHouser
I agrée, not fake.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Looks like the real deal to me. F'd up.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Nah, it was all the groundies fault the climber told them to be here. So it must be true LOL
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Ummmm does guy in vid with leg trapped have a handsaw on hip?
>>that is my prescheduled, quick release of a tensioned line used only 2x for this, but that gun would always be on my hip.
>>and saw is a force that could be used to cut rope, would not turn it off; throw away that card until we are good/good; not just good
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that then can control rotation;
even as tag line goes slack, just as lift from wedge does.
Especially if direction of pull is shear across thinnest axis of hinge.
L.U.C.K. Labor Under Controlled Knowledge for the more i practice, the luckier i get!
.
Would have pre-faced as spacer to rope and stopped before the face as hinge.
And folding down is feeding into the strongest pull of gravity, but then steering to side with hinge; not so much.
i see same in Murph's rips; i always tried to feed those to side, of less intense gravity pull direction, but still plenty of upward pillar.
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Hard to tell how overhead rope was rigged, besides not well; perhaps ground angle of pull could have kept it fairer from slide.
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Climber was steering this train into the wall hit, totally.
i've been in a few mishaps of ground control opposites dis-ease of not paying out line to relieve force as i am screaming at them(not seen in vid) to do so.
Timing is everything, and the relief of force can be as important as it's application, in fact is another (non)application of force quantity simply.
One guy just got it wrong under pressure, and the more i yelled to relive force the more he locked down on force. Another thought he knew better than what i was saying, yet another never did figure out WTF was problem with him/them. Injured and in shock seems i get into own space and run preSet pro-gram cleanly, hurting but clear thinking focused, much more so than those around staring at me. Nurses generally pretty good at calming, being charming. Is real flag when best they can do is hide face in horror gasp when seeing you; and run out of room to bring co-worker back to do same....
.
i was so cheap and focused dislocated elbow 120 degrees from load swung into me as screaming when it was still hinging to lower and let fold around on hinge;
that had to peel death grip from that same hand off 020 to hang on belt, and fold bottom of shirt up to cradle arm as baby, and retie in 1 handed to lower self.
Should at least call ambo in film, can say was mistaken if don't want to pay for ride; but half-seconds can matter and sometimes FD might be needed but this one is still kicking. Ground control can't be too shy with those functions; especially on single climber crew. They are dealing from a blind hand, with all the chips in the bet(as usual), but now only holding a 3 of clubs; is just not as good a bet as usual in this game.
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1x Prusiked rig line, set by pull away, then OPPOSITE direction hard, then final direction hard, Bowline end of lifeline to it, to cut rig line room for stopper, and lower Load to get leg out on WTF incident had to leave behind and forget to go on with crew.
>>that is my prescheduled, quick release of a tensioned line used only 2x for this, but that gun would always be on my hip.
>>and saw is a force that could be used to cut rope, would not turn it off; throw away that card until we are good/good; not just good
.
i think in terms of pull line strengthening hinge, as then possibly another multiplier of controls in dominoes chain,
that then can control rotation;
even as tag line goes slack, just as lift from wedge does.
Especially if direction of pull is shear across thinnest axis of hinge.
L.U.C.K. Labor Under Controlled Knowledge for the more i practice, the luckier i get!
.
Would have pre-faced as spacer to rope and stopped before the face as hinge.
And folding down is feeding into the strongest pull of gravity, but then steering to side with hinge; not so much.
i see same in Murph's rips; i always tried to feed those to side, of less intense gravity pull direction, but still plenty of upward pillar.
.
Hard to tell how overhead rope was rigged, besides not well; perhaps ground angle of pull could have kept it fairer from slide.
.
Climber was steering this train into the wall hit, totally.
i've been in a few mishaps of ground control opposites dis-ease of not paying out line to relieve force as i am screaming at them(not seen in vid) to do so.
Timing is everything, and the relief of force can be as important as it's application, in fact is another (non)application of force quantity simply.
One guy just got it wrong under pressure, and the more i yelled to relive force the more he locked down on force. Another thought he knew better than what i was saying, yet another never did figure out WTF was problem with him/them. Injured and in shock seems i get into own space and run preSet pro-gram cleanly, hurting but clear thinking focused, much more so than those around staring at me. Nurses generally pretty good at calming, being charming. Is real flag when best they can do is hide face in horror gasp when seeing you; and run out of room to bring co-worker back to do same....
.
i was so cheap and focused dislocated elbow 120 degrees from load swung into me as screaming when it was still hinging to lower and let fold around on hinge;
that had to peel death grip from that same hand off 020 to hang on belt, and fold bottom of shirt up to cradle arm as baby, and retie in 1 handed to lower self.
Should at least call ambo in film, can say was mistaken if don't want to pay for ride; but half-seconds can matter and sometimes FD might be needed but this one is still kicking. Ground control can't be too shy with those functions; especially on single climber crew. They are dealing from a blind hand, with all the chips in the bet(as usual), but now only holding a 3 of clubs; is just not as good a bet as usual in this game.
.
1x Prusiked rig line, set by pull away, then OPPOSITE direction hard, then final direction hard, Bowline end of lifeline to it, to cut rig line room for stopper, and lower Load to get leg out on WTF incident had to leave behind and forget to go on with crew.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
Thanks to "translate" the vid Gary. I can see it now, even if I can't understand half of what he says.
Sure, a loaded rope can pinch hard on its side if a climber's part is in the way.
I fu**ed-up myself once, but not nearly as bad though.
It was a heavy reduction pruning of a nice big oak, almost all roped down. One of the main limbs made a slight elbow to the right where I wanted to cut (about 8" diameter). But it has to go a bit to the left and then behind me to find the landing zone. As is, my over-head rigging rope would have slided along the right of the limb or found the elbow and stay there like in a redirect, not good either ways. So I lanyarded myself just before the elbow, on the left, and pushed away to the left the rigging rope with my back, like showing the path for it. Not much deviation, so it should be fine. Additional benefit, that gave me some clearance for the cut too. Smart, isn't it ?
I told the groundy to put the rope on the bollard with just a little slack. Fine until now.
Then I figured out that an other limb under me would have been in the way at the tip, most likely messing my intended path or worse, stopping the move. So I changed my plan a little and aimed my cut toward the right to avoid too much of an interference between the limbs. I just forget that the rigging rope was behind my shoulders. It quickly reminded me its presence when the limb started to move toward the right and down. That wasn't a small deviation any more and the left shoulder blade saw it first place. Then the rope slided down my back as the hinge let go, luckily relatively quickly, being oak wood.
Oouuch !
Good side of it, the limb brushed/cleared the other limb and followed my plan, ending nicely in the LZ.
But still, ouch !
Sure, a loaded rope can pinch hard on its side if a climber's part is in the way.
I fu**ed-up myself once, but not nearly as bad though.
It was a heavy reduction pruning of a nice big oak, almost all roped down. One of the main limbs made a slight elbow to the right where I wanted to cut (about 8" diameter). But it has to go a bit to the left and then behind me to find the landing zone. As is, my over-head rigging rope would have slided along the right of the limb or found the elbow and stay there like in a redirect, not good either ways. So I lanyarded myself just before the elbow, on the left, and pushed away to the left the rigging rope with my back, like showing the path for it. Not much deviation, so it should be fine. Additional benefit, that gave me some clearance for the cut too. Smart, isn't it ?
I told the groundy to put the rope on the bollard with just a little slack. Fine until now.
Then I figured out that an other limb under me would have been in the way at the tip, most likely messing my intended path or worse, stopping the move. So I changed my plan a little and aimed my cut toward the right to avoid too much of an interference between the limbs. I just forget that the rigging rope was behind my shoulders. It quickly reminded me its presence when the limb started to move toward the right and down. That wasn't a small deviation any more and the left shoulder blade saw it first place. Then the rope slided down my back as the hinge let go, luckily relatively quickly, being oak wood.
Oouuch !
Good side of it, the limb brushed/cleared the other limb and followed my plan, ending nicely in the LZ.
But still, ouch !
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Mick!
TreeHouser
I am sort of teaching rigging to my nephew at the moment, this has caused me to look at it afresh.
Some things I find myself saying a lot are
‘what does that piece of wood want to do?’
‘what do you want it to do?’
‘How do you do that safely?’
And finally
‘what will happen if it goes wrong?’
A kind of ‘in tree’ risk assessment.
Some things I find myself saying a lot are
‘what does that piece of wood want to do?’
‘what do you want it to do?’
‘How do you do that safely?’
And finally
‘what will happen if it goes wrong?’
A kind of ‘in tree’ risk assessment.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
i do most things like that, and notice again and again wife wants to demand something just work as she visualizes.
>>i think most do this in some way.
>>not what does this add up to, but rather what do i want it to say.
i am always asking self, where does it want to do/go Naturally w/o change or effort?
How can we make it change what it wants to do Naturally towards our target as much as possible?
Can we use it against itself for more of that?
How do we bulldog the rest easily?
.
And yes, like some kind of martial arts; what are the escape routes and plans, prewired in to react instantly, as constantly monitoring all around, taking it's pulse in this type work, on toes like lil'caveman with sparse tools in the land of the hungry giants.
100% USDA Certified Climber F'up where well marbled Prime is required.
>>i think most do this in some way.
>>not what does this add up to, but rather what do i want it to say.
i am always asking self, where does it want to do/go Naturally w/o change or effort?
How can we make it change what it wants to do Naturally towards our target as much as possible?
Can we use it against itself for more of that?
How do we bulldog the rest easily?
.
And yes, like some kind of martial arts; what are the escape routes and plans, prewired in to react instantly, as constantly monitoring all around, taking it's pulse in this type work, on toes like lil'caveman with sparse tools in the land of the hungry giants.
Darwin seems to have his number and is calling, perhaps daily:
100% USDA Certified Climber F'up where well marbled Prime is required.
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pantheraba
More biners!!!
Two very good and descriptive phrases. Well put.
Jed
TreeHouser
Agreed.
And yet I would like to sincerely apologize for all of my stupid remarks regarding that video. I don’t know that guy from Adam. Christians are not supposed to judge, and remarks like mine are the exact reason why many people can stand Christians.
I might be lookin real seriously at taking a BIG hiatus from drinkin real quick here. I just need a shorter leash. I look at the guy who wrote those remarks and don’t like what I see.
Burnham and Reg can tell you that this used to be amost a daily vacillation on my part. Not good. Granted you guys are used to it, but still.
Apologies brothers. (Again) Especially to Altissimus.
And yet I would like to sincerely apologize for all of my stupid remarks regarding that video. I don’t know that guy from Adam. Christians are not supposed to judge, and remarks like mine are the exact reason why many people can stand Christians.
I might be lookin real seriously at taking a BIG hiatus from drinkin real quick here. I just need a shorter leash. I look at the guy who wrote those remarks and don’t like what I see.
Burnham and Reg can tell you that this used to be amost a daily vacillation on my part. Not good. Granted you guys are used to it, but still.
Apologies brothers. (Again) Especially to Altissimus.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Good luck with a hiatus.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Jed,
Good to look within, and you get a pass here. Everybody LOVES YOU! You are a gem of a human being. Always positive with great humor. I think that due to the dangerous nature of this work, we all suffer from a mild case of PTSD (some more than others). When we see how close a bad move like that comes to hurting or killing someone, it kicks up that PTSD, even if it's not us, and even if it's just watching a video. Anger is a natural reaction to danger. It's a survival mechanism. I've found myself screaming at the computer screen a few times over the years. It's just natural. If its time to lay off the beers.. that's another thing. I gave that up in 91. Mostly just drink water now. Clean water is a beautiful thing.
Good to look within, and you get a pass here. Everybody LOVES YOU! You are a gem of a human being. Always positive with great humor. I think that due to the dangerous nature of this work, we all suffer from a mild case of PTSD (some more than others). When we see how close a bad move like that comes to hurting or killing someone, it kicks up that PTSD, even if it's not us, and even if it's just watching a video. Anger is a natural reaction to danger. It's a survival mechanism. I've found myself screaming at the computer screen a few times over the years. It's just natural. If its time to lay off the beers.. that's another thing. I gave that up in 91. Mostly just drink water now. Clean water is a beautiful thing.
Mick!
TreeHouser
I do not suffer from a mild case of PTSD.
What is it with Americans and giving up drink? Buncha quitters.
What is it with Americans and giving up drink? Buncha quitters.
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murphy4trees
TreeHouser
If you look at the still image for the video, it sure looks like he could have put a redirect out on the limb that he had already cut off (going straight or left). Looks like he had plenty of height and the redirect would have been plenty strong rigging point. He didn't need to tie off so far out on the cut limb either. Let those tips swing down and away. He cut off the limb that would have been a useful rigging point. He could have easily avoided the entire scenario. He may have even been able to run the line under the limb he was standing on and the entire piece would have had to come well below him.
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murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Agreed.. you're way to calm for PTSD..
Mick you echo my mantra I've used since I started this work
Having sussed out what I think I need to do I pause :
'What will happen if this goes wrong?'
Where will the wood go, where will I be, where will my saw go?
All going in separate directions...proceed.
Having sussed out what I think I need to do I pause :
'What will happen if this goes wrong?'
Where will the wood go, where will I be, where will my saw go?
All going in separate directions...proceed.
Mick!
TreeHouser
And if you can’t answer any of those questions with authority, re-think it.
I sometimes overanalyze things, and fixate on all the ways I can screw myself up. Effective for personal safety I guess, but time consuming, and I make myself look like a dumbass.
One time I was on a pier cap, and had to do work on the other section. The piers were split by some small amount. I can't remember exactly, but 3'-4'. I didn't want to step over the gap. I'm looking at the gap, and think, "Yea, that's just a big step", but then the beamseat rises above the cap, so there's a 6"-8" difference in elevation, and I'm looking at bits of concrete and screws on top of the seat, and am imagining hitting them with my microjump, and skittering off the edge, or hitting half the seat, and losing balance... I didn't do it, and the contractor set something up for me(can't remember what) to get to the other section. When I got up there with my safety whatever in place, I just stepped right over, easy as can be. Felt stupid. There's something to be said for controlling your brain. There's an infinite number of ways to screw yourself up, and most of them won't happen. Need to prioritize.
One time I was on a pier cap, and had to do work on the other section. The piers were split by some small amount. I can't remember exactly, but 3'-4'. I didn't want to step over the gap. I'm looking at the gap, and think, "Yea, that's just a big step", but then the beamseat rises above the cap, so there's a 6"-8" difference in elevation, and I'm looking at bits of concrete and screws on top of the seat, and am imagining hitting them with my microjump, and skittering off the edge, or hitting half the seat, and losing balance... I didn't do it, and the contractor set something up for me(can't remember what) to get to the other section. When I got up there with my safety whatever in place, I just stepped right over, easy as can be. Felt stupid. There's something to be said for controlling your brain. There's an infinite number of ways to screw yourself up, and most of them won't happen. Need to prioritize.
Things I used to do almost without thinking...jumping into boats from the dock, leaping across rocks along the shoreline...one day it seemed all of a sudden I was thinking a few moves ahead and the 'what happens if I fall' thought arose...the outcome was never nice, involving lacerations and broken bones.
It hit sometime around mid 40's. I started using steps on the dock...
It hit sometime around mid 40's. I started using steps on the dock...
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Brings back painful memories. Oh I've tired but could not thwart youthful ambitions with good advise. "Someday that's going to hurt you!" In one ear out the other.
Having been a youth once I'm qualified to tell.
Having been a youth once I'm qualified to tell.
Jed
TreeHouser
This thread is gold. I was laughing my guts out (only two Spacedust IPA’s deep) at Mick, thinkin, “Yeah... why quit drinkin?... Why not just learn to shut yer filthy pie hole?”
Gold I tell ya.
Gold I tell ya.
