short bar technique

[Tree09]

Hahahahahaha

 

[Graeme McMahon]

Thanks for the safety cut explanation, Mr. Swan.

Honk

You write so well, very succinct. Reminds me of Gerry's writing style in Fundamentals.

The concept of maximizing control by leaving the sides of the hinge intact is HUGE!!!

Here is a quick cut made on a tree with a fairly open DZ.. So anything close to the gun was fine. I finished the back cut with a bore cut parallel to the face, came out the back, then nosed the bar back in (push chaining), to take out fibers in the middle of the hinge while leaving enough of a post on the left side of the hinge to get the tree to the lay. It's clear from the photo that the tree had a little side left lean. And the hinge fibers on the right side of the hinge were a little punky (white ash)

Hi Daniel

Was the left and right you refer to from your perspective as a faller or the last picture from the front? I can see the last saw cut was from the left of the stump in the last picture.

Was the small fragment of wood on the scarf (notch area) residual from the RHS (stump Pic). If so was this an intentional method?

I looked a couple of times on the video and it looked as though the last log section was brute force with a machine?

 

[Tim_B.]

In our split prone hardwood trees "splits" (barbers chair) are initiated most times by strong hinge wood, especially in the middle of the tree. Control of the direction of fall is maximised by the intact fibres at either side of the hinge. Applying wing cuts is likely an immediate loss of control.

By placing the safety cuts about 2 times the diameter below the falling position is a compromise to reduce the hazards of bark tearing down past the flipline and loss of control to the side. Safety cuts cannot be applied to heavy side leaners in these free grain trees as the tension wood will pull out.

Most times you will see me quarter cut and neutralise the dangerous "centre" wood and chase off on the tension side as it falls. If that side is strong it is more likely to tear down (mostly bark). Having some disruption to that tear is prudent.

Thanks so much for this clear explanation of a technique that seems to confuse even veteran tree folks, which I am not. It is all so subtle.

Am I the only forum member who is absolutely astonished at the fact that we have been able to get commentary on a video that was posted to YouTube more than ten years ago? It is just incredible. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with us on this forum, Graeme!

Tim

And thanks for short bar explanation, Graeme. What a horrible thought having the top of a tree that size split out on you.

Hey, Butch! I was just wondering how it was possible for the above quote from rbtree to be attributed to RegC when it was quoted by Graeme in post number 50? Is that a glitch? Just mildly confused, is all. Thanks.

Tim

 

[MasterBlaster]

Heck if I know, brother.

 

[RegC]

Yeah, seems like my post has merged with Rogers

Jomo

 

[pantheraba]

Jomo???

 

[Burnham]

All things not understandable to us mere mortals might be attributed there...

 

[murphy4trees]

Hi Daniel

Was the left and right you refer to from your perspective as a faller or the last picture from the front? I can see the last saw cut was from the left of the stump in the last picture.

Was the small fragment of wood on the scarf (notch area) residual from the RHS (stump Pic). If so was this an intentional method?

I looked a couple of times on the video and it looked as though the last log section was brute force with a machine?

Left in the photo

and yes what looks like a slight bypass in the face is intentional. It's the residue from the plate cut, used to add some height to the fibers on the front of the hinge... If it's a tight drop, I will always clean out the apex, but certainly not needed here with a wide open DZ....

LOL on the brute force... Certainly a high pull line with force, where "brute force" is more of a judgment call. As pretty much all the regulars here will attest, if I can put my skid steer loader on the rope, I will. Skid steer weighs about 6,000 lbs with op and bucket, pulling force about half of that on unpaved surfaces due to turf tracks.

Making sure the hinge is the weak point, I will step away from the stump, and pull as hard as it takes to trip the fall... It did seem to take more force than expected on this one, so that was a good observation. And I've noticed a tendency for loggers to prefer thinner hinges .. I AM a proponent of FAT HINGES and lots of pull for side leaners, especially in poorly hinging species when valuable property is at risk. I've seen amazing control in many situations, where brute force would be the only way to trip a hinge..

 

[RegC]

All things not understandable to us mere mortals might be attributed there...

Lol Burnham

 

[cory]

Thanks again for the explanation Jed, for the first time it makes sense now that i can visualize the torsion problems with the gap cut. Learn something everyday here!

I think I have it now, too, also after seeing Jed dump a cedar with it on IG

 

[gf beranek]

Hinge-wood dynamics. Not a finer subject there be in the trade to spark insights and opinion.

 

[Burnham]

Absolutely. Discussion of the finer points can pretty soon cull the wheat from the chaff, sawyer-wise .

 

[Tim_B.]

All any of us can ever do sir. Hang in there.

Sean! Kyle! Thanks a million, you guys.

Marc: Yup. Yer a genious. In our neck of the woods we call what you referred to as a "half gap," a Sizwill, and it works a charm. This will be beating a dead horse to Burnham, Beranek, Willie Ging (SOTC) and others, but it bears repeating. The way we do it is to just cut up a regular Humboldt face, but then do a ripping bore vertically down the stump on the tension side, from the top of the face, down clean to the dirt. Then a smaller diagonal cut is made to provide a huge, gapped opening (again... ONLY on the tension side). I believe there is a thread back in the Treehouse archives entitled, "Whizzy," or some such nonsense. Willie named it that. I've never heard any one else call it that, but it's a really good thead that has some excellent computer diagrams that display the cut. I've seen side-leaners that were cut-up this way, dang near pull roots out of the ground on the tension side. It's a wonderful trick. Especially in the spring.

Hey, Jed! Does this seem like the thread you were referring to in your post? I just wanted to try to make it easier for someone reading this thread to find the information you were talking about. Thanks for your time and all of your posts.

Tim

https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?13702-Whizzy&highlight=whizzy

 

[Jed]

Great explanation, thanks, Graeme

Jed, I'm not fully capiching the cuts you are taking about, I'd probably get it instantly if I saw it. Could you elaborate for the learning impaired, or maybe even a vid?

There was a cool thread or discussion here awhile back, not sure if you were here for it, it was a "double hinge'' for big side leaners, 'Logger Wade' put out a vid on it. I'm reminded of it from you descriptions involving boring vertically.

Graeme's explanation may also explain why he didn't use a longer bar as Jed was asking. With the shorter bar he could more easily quarter cut it.

So I just re-watched Graeme's vid after reading your post, Corey, and the main thing that emerges is: what an absolute, horrible, and disgusting little turd I am for ever having the audacity (My dear Mr. McMahon, Sir, Your Honor... I had absolutely NO IDEA that you were currently quite present and "up in da House," as all the young kids say these days, and thought, wrongly as I now see, and quite in accord with the habit of my usual smug, little manner, that I could quite freely go on talking behind your back about the great, knowledgeable man that I am, and how you could have done it better with this and that and I don't KNOW what, like the wretched and vile, poop smelling pig that I am.) to ever dare to criticize so august a personage as the man whom we all have beheld in that vid, who routinely deals with trees bigger than I ohly realize, if at all, only in my wildest dreams. I am truely an ass, and I'm back in the House for better or worse.

Anyways: ahhh.... Please forgive me gentlemen. Between you, Corey, Graeme, Reg, Butch, Burnham and Beranek, (the three B's as I refer to them, lol) I fully realize myself to be (on my finest days) a mere midget standing on the shoulders of giants. May God fully forgive me, and may none of you guys ever pay one ounce of attention to anything else that I could ever presume to know about treework ever again, so help me God.

Ohhh... On quite another note: So very sorry for yet another lacuna in my posting habits friends, but I think that I can with a clear concience, fully fault computer crashes and regional internet limitations for this, my most recent offense. My apologies yet again... I'm gonna get BETTER friends, I promise!... bear with me... I've got reams of pictures that I won't, at present burden you great ones with, but, in good time, I fear that my irrepressible ham-like nature will inevitably win out, and that you will all have to deal with loads of pictures from posts entitled: "Couldn't Swing this One," or, "Aborted Sizwill," or some such nonsense. I know... I know... You're all waiting on baited breath.

 

[Graeme McMahon]

Hinge-wood dynamics. Not a finer subject there be in the trade to spark insights and opinion.

Well said

 

[Jed]

Ditto.

 

[cory]

so august a personage as the man whom we all have beheld ,

Jedidiah, you sir, are a trip.

 

[Jed]

Try to tell me he's not august, though.

 

[cory]

I had to look it up.

Agreed. August AF!

 

[Jonny]

I still get a little star struck conversing with some of the guys here too. So awesome to be able to talk shop or just shoot the shit with some straight up legends!
The TreeHouse frikkin rocks!!!

 

[MasterBlaster]

You should have been here 10 years ago, brother! I'd give anything for those days again...

 

[Jonny]

I was here 13-14 years ago, place was jumping pretty good then.
I miss alot of the folks, I could probably name 20 guys or so that I was really hoping to reconnect with. Still alot of greats around.
During my absence, I'd still think about the folks here alot. Found myself in a jam trying to fix the truck or something and always thought " I wonder what Al would do? "

 

[MasterBlaster]

 

[Tree09]

I think just about everyone alive would love to go back 10 years hahahaha

 

[Mick!]

Yep, life moves on, things change.

10 years ago the financial crisis was slapping me around pretty hard, sleepless nights, worrying loads.

Left me a bit shell shocked and too timid (credit wise) to get going again when the waters receded.