Interesting felling technique!
- Thread starter frans
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SeanKroll
Treehouser
NC
Natural Crotch (contrast 'false crotch') rigged/ rigging.
Small phone screen only, lately for me, and only a little virtual keyboard...... waiting on a new wireless modem.
Natural Crotch (contrast 'false crotch') rigged/ rigging.
Small phone screen only, lately for me, and only a little virtual keyboard...... waiting on a new wireless modem.
Mick!
TreeHouser
looks to me like he was using a pulley.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Whatever he was trying to do it could have killed him ... not preaching but , better line angles and smaller pieces
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
That's exactly why I have been saying tip-tying is often unnecessarily dangerous. I see way too much of it on YouTube
Tie off below the COG and let the piece swing down and away from you...
I've seen Reg, August, and Human tie off well above the COG when there was plenty of room to swing the piece down and away. While Reg and August appear to have the movement of the piece dialed in, IMO it sets a bad example for those of lesser experience. Human came about 6" away from death with the grazing blow of that big walnut limb that helicoptered right around the stem and grazed the back of his helmet. When you tip tie and the line has some angle to it, the piece is going to helicopter at a height that can come back and get the climber, just as seen here. Tie off a piece off far enough below the COG so that it swings down and there is zero chance of getting hammered, no matter what the groundie does. Just seems like common sense. IN the rare cases where there is too little clearance is about the only time I tip tie.
In this case, he side-loaded the stem he was tied into. And as Jerry pointed out, the swinging piece dropped right into the falling side of the rigging line, which compounded the potential danger of side loading.
Gravity is your friend when used wisely
Tie off below the COG and let the piece swing down and away from you...
I've seen Reg, August, and Human tie off well above the COG when there was plenty of room to swing the piece down and away. While Reg and August appear to have the movement of the piece dialed in, IMO it sets a bad example for those of lesser experience. Human came about 6" away from death with the grazing blow of that big walnut limb that helicoptered right around the stem and grazed the back of his helmet. When you tip tie and the line has some angle to it, the piece is going to helicopter at a height that can come back and get the climber, just as seen here. Tie off a piece off far enough below the COG so that it swings down and there is zero chance of getting hammered, no matter what the groundie does. Just seems like common sense. IN the rare cases where there is too little clearance is about the only time I tip tie.
In this case, he side-loaded the stem he was tied into. And as Jerry pointed out, the swinging piece dropped right into the falling side of the rigging line, which compounded the potential danger of side loading.
Gravity is your friend when used wisely
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Single tying off horizontal just before CoG is better for the load to handle lighter, less leveraged, slower crank to vertical more predictably. Also can offer a spanned reach to usher hitch point more under support before tearoff, adding to even more less violent change impact at tearoff. This all works several ways to the total sum.
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So rig from opposing/far side of support point to farther side of Load trying to tweak another angle minute or so, trying to extrude another 10% or so side pull. The less leveraged load of hitch point towards CoG works to allow this laying load into rope purposefully to go further. Trying for more deft, light, gracefully, but positive non-stalling movement of more control and reaction time. The hitch point distance to hinge is that rope tension side pull multiplied by that length lever. At start cut more down loading rope into tapered hinge purposefully hard, then change to more across cut to feed into turn with higher tension line pulling.
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As we face to target direction for more sidewards sweep than pure down, the added side force can force stronger hinge, just as rope pull to target in felling. In rigging this increases 'hang time' on hinge before tearoff, giving rope near CoG and strong hinge as 2 rig points to basket load rigged between now 2 spread supports until tear off in this orchestration. Looking at hinge strength as response to pulls into face before committed, more side wards face gets less gravity pull to force stronger, so rope tension greatly increases hinge strength to more horizontal hinge, but give some relief downwards like trying to tease with downward direction load seeks and conning side wards out of it in the mitigated bargain....
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Here, especially if rig line slanted, would tension rig line as best could. Climber in unique position to aid this. Then lay horizontal load into rope gradually trying to get as much load transferred to rope before tearoff as can. Then with slanted line @1minute angle gets 10% of line tension as side pull to draw hitch point under rig point. So tighter rope, more return. If rope angle @2 or 3minutes 20,30% side pull respectively. Strong increase in pull with slightest angle change.
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So rig from opposing/far side of support point to farther side of Load trying to tweak another angle minute or so, trying to extrude another 10% or so side pull. The less leveraged load of hitch point towards CoG works to allow this laying load into rope purposefully to go further. Trying for more deft, light, gracefully, but positive non-stalling movement of more control and reaction time. The hitch point distance to hinge is that rope tension side pull multiplied by that length lever. At start cut more down loading rope into tapered hinge purposefully hard, then change to more across cut to feed into turn with higher tension line pulling.
.
As we face to target direction for more sidewards sweep than pure down, the added side force can force stronger hinge, just as rope pull to target in felling. In rigging this increases 'hang time' on hinge before tearoff, giving rope near CoG and strong hinge as 2 rig points to basket load rigged between now 2 spread supports until tear off in this orchestration. Looking at hinge strength as response to pulls into face before committed, more side wards face gets less gravity pull to force stronger, so rope tension greatly increases hinge strength to more horizontal hinge, but give some relief downwards like trying to tease with downward direction load seeks and conning side wards out of it in the mitigated bargain....
Gravity is a force in equation, that can be friend or foe!
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murphy4trees
TreeHouser
He may have been trying to reduce the loading on the rigging point, since he was tied into the same stem he was rigging from. That was a bad idea from jump street. He could have unclipped from the tall stem and tied into the stem he was on, so he wasn't so concerned about the tall stem failing. If he was able to sump the thing straight at the tall stem it wouldn't have helicoptered. And there is no excuse for the side loading. Simply using a sling and shackle as a redirect lower on the stem would have been so much safer. An old piece of rope and $9 shackle is all it takes to prevent side loading.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Here's a tip tie when it was REALLY needed...
couple interesting cuts too..
couple interesting cuts too..
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Two different techniques...ekka's snd August's.
I've used the style August used, to prevent smashing things at the base of trees a couple times.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Special app.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
i did this 2x to prove could and to prove to others cuts were not generic, could be specialized to task, like Tapered Hinge.
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Other than that, always had another way i guess;
so for me as far as production and time etc. "more all show and no go".
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Other than that, always had another way i guess;
so for me as far as production and time etc. "more all show and no go".
Al Smith
Mac Daddy
This Ekka business he conned someone to send him a Stihl 200T to where ever he was OZ NZ where ever .It developed problems evidently nobody could fix, he wasn't a mechanic .Typical run 15 minutes then lean out which is usually seals .He sent me the carb which might have been a crack in the fuel chamber from what I derermined from a visual inspection .I sent it to Eddie Anderson at Stihl Va beach for further testing .They determined I was pretty close because it had an internal leak but they could not determine exactly where it was . Whatever happend to him I have no idea but I certainly was not looking for him .For that matter I have no idea what became of Eddie either ( Stihl number one ) but unlike Ekka added a lot to this and several other forums when he was active .
