O.C.G.D. Thread, part two

[Raj]

I think the rope makes a difference. I had a nylon 3 strand and it never slipped. I recently got a cheaper brand polyester rope and it has jumped on me. A more expensive brand 3 strand and it hasn't jumped. I have yet to try a 12 strand.

 

[squisher]

I've had it slip with quality three strand. Heed the rating on it or IMO too about what Merle mentioned 1500lbs or so. Because it will slip if the pull is to heavy. It's not going to hold if a heavy tree tries to go south.

 

[SeanKroll]

https://www.amazon.com/Maasdam-Long...fkmr0&keywords=Maasdam+continuous+rope+puller

Cheap.



Hard-lay three-strand.


Use a 2:1 or 3:1 or 4:1 attached to a bull rope for a hard pulls.
A 2:1 piggy backed into a 2:1 multiples into a 4:1, with the basic rated-pulleys you may already have.

Spike the standing-end of the line periodically if you have a lot of back lean and load, and use wedges as SOP.


If using a MCRP, I typically bail out on a munter hitch down the 3-strand, with continuous flip-line protection.

I'll feed the standing end through the MCRP and use the end for a Running Bowline around a ground anchor (tree, fence post, t-post picket, pile of logs).

Wherever I want the MCRP, I girth hitch the swivel-hook. Tape the gate open.

GTG.

Weighs little, small, cheap.

The elasticity of a long length of tensioned, 3-strand rope let me, solo, pull my truck out of loose gravel on a new / partially compacted, steep driveway/ road bed, when the edge caved-in. I was trying to compact the edges of the road bed with my pickup, and test the road bed, before heavier trucks came for a Homesite clearing job.

 

[Mick!]

Sean, you’re starting to post a bit like Kenny (tree spider)

 

[squisher]

How many days would it take to pull a tree over with a maasdam hooked up 4 to 1 I wonder?

Just was adding my .02 in on what Merle had mentioned. Maasdam is a great tool for what it's rated for, which on Sean's link is 3/4 ton of pull. More then enough to be very useful. But it's been my experience that right around that point it starts to slip. Unsettling to say the least if it's not expected.

That's how I believe the maasdam is designed to slip as it's failure point. Not blow apart or deform.

 

[SeanKroll]

My laptop charger died. Virtually keyboard on small screens are my options, at the moment.

I'll post a picture of a drawing.

 

[SeanKroll]

Squish, you're right it's not THE tool for the job, but it's very portable. If you have to carry it in or whatnot.

Be careful that the pawls fully engage, and are not worn/ damaged.

Squish, not all are as burly as you. And if one is in leg-press mode, against the anchor tree or whatnot, you're putting serious input force into it. To me, it looks like about a 7:1 second-class lever. Friction seems low, as part of the equation.

You know how to cut a hinge, so I suspect it wasn't the make-the-hinge-think-'cause-imma-not-sure scenario.

A person can pull (generate pulling force equal to) their own weight with good traction, flat ground, without something to push against.
A guy your size could easily brace against something with your foot and two-hand pull 300#, I'd guess.
300 x7:1 MA is way over 1500 swl.
It's got it's limits.

Instead of PowerPoint, I'm using PenPoint 1.0.











The reason to tape the hook open, when anchoring the MCRP be with a girth hitch or bowline on a bight, where you would have two stands on the hook, is that it gets too crowded, and the rope wants to snag, sometimes






Ignore the pic below.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

The MCRP has a 10:1 MA if you hold the handle by the end.
But I don't see how we can pull 3/4 ton with it. It could sustain such a load, probably, but pulling it, no, not in my view.
Firstly, you can pull your own weigh only if you have something sturdy to push against. On flat ground, it's only a matter of friction under your feet. The max pulling force is your weigh times the friction factor, which is always less than 1 and can be very very less than 1 (like pulling on gravel, mud or on ice !). Try to get more than that and your feet will slip.
To me, my pulling with the MCRP around 900¤ seems a good guess. I need a load cell. Plus, this value is about what is claimed by the european reseller.
Secondly, the handle is supposed to bend if we over load it. I never came close to that. But when I reach my max pull, the rope begin to be damaged by the ratchet spool, so I know that I'm near the limit. I didn't be able to make it slip by pulling though.

Only once I got a slip by over loading it. It was in release mode for lowering a skinny Ailanthus : first, I pulled to reduce its back lean and to pass a nearby tree intended to be a guard, I used the side lean to make it shift in front of the guard tree (hinge already broken), movement stopped by the rope touching a third tree, then let go the felled tree between the guard tree and the third tree using the ratchet release. As the lean increased again and again, the load on the rope increased drastically to the point that it slept one step with a "ping", then two, then three in a row. The rope was secured behind the MCRP, but it was truly the time to stop before a full slip. The tree was lowered enough and at reach (barely) to piece its crown with a pole saw.

I love this gear. Used today to cut an over grown hedge of Leylandii with back lean, tangled limbs ....

 

[Tree09]

I obviously am not the caliber of tree worker that you guys are, so note that to start off with. I personally use an old cm chain come along when I'm pulling a tree. It's a 3/4 ton one, with about 20 foot of chain. I use my big 5/8 bull rope, and then use a 1/2 inch or even a 5/8 tautline for attaching the come along. I then back up the pull with a portawrap. The chain come alongs are about as bulletproof as they come, and can be purchased at least up to 5 tons that I've personally used before. And they definitely pull their rated amount, and don't slip. You can pick them up at an auction or the like pretty cheap, and since they are made for industrial rigging they are incredibly durable and easy to service. At 20 foot above the cut, and the rope at a 45 degree angle to the anchor (way worse than you should ever attempt obviously), a 3/4 ton come along will exert over 21000 pounds of torque. Being in Illinois, and being conservative, that's plenty for me.

I also calculate the torque needed to tip the tree. Easy to do with a log chart and a tape measure. That way there are no surprises. Probably overkill, but that's me.

 

[Jonny]

Thanks very much for all the input. You make some options easy to understand SeanKroll, I appreciate the drawings.
I've actually been shopping for a pair or double sheave pulleys for bigger MA than the 3:1 I usually do.

So when it slips, it loses a few inches or feet, then grabs again or do you lose all the tension and the entire system fails?

I'm not expecting miracles out of this machine, and I take load limits and factory recommendations pretty serious. I'll always choose to reduce weight on the heavy side if a tree is leaning the opposite direction I want it to fall.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Wespur suggests a harder lay three strand that works very well with it, Arbor Master?

It just slips till load is below slipping point. Only time I had it happen I was sliding big block cuts off a stem with no friction relief. It slipped a few inches of rope through system to relieve pressure.

 

[SeanKroll]

Pro-master 3-strand, I think.

 

[squisher]

That is the rope I used with it. The one wesspur suggests/sells with it.

 

[Jonny]

I got a new 60' piece of dacron 3 strand somewhere, made by Samson, and I'm going to experiment with some 12 strand too. Probably buy a couple hundred feet of 3 strand and cut some different lengths.



Nice haul today

After 10+ years I need a new sling for the big shot.

I'm really excited to play with the hitchhiker

 

[Bodean]

Le Nice!

 

[Raj]

Tres nice!

 

[Burnham]

Yessir!

 

[ruel]

Have fun getting that new big shot rubber on, helps if you warm it up first.

 

[Tim_B.]

Here's a video anyone who has recently purchased a Maasdam Continuous Rope Puller, AKA MCRS, should watch. It is by TreeMuggs, of Educated Climber fame. Take care.

Tim

P.S. Thanks to Sean for posting all of his great drawings of the various setups for the Maasdam.

Also, welcome, @Johnny Hart, to the TreeHouse forum! You are a great addition to the membership here, and I look forward to reading more from you. It is good to see you jumping in with both feet, posting photos and everything.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZE6MjmBJk20?rel=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Tim_B.]

View attachment 89735

Been meaning to buy one of these for years. Still haven't heard anything bad about the Maasdam rope puller, and I can think of dozens of times it would've come in handy in the past.

Slips at some point (1500 lb pull?) only trust it so far.

Good to mention that Merle. It's not the tool for hard pulls.

Ok, squisher, I'll bite, since this is a question that I've had on my mind of late. What, in your opinion, is the correct tool for the hard pulls? The biggest, baddest powered winch you can get your hands on, or something else? What do the folks that have to lift whole trees off of houses use, short of a crane? I'm asking for the most robust, but low cost solution to the problem of moving huge amounts of weight in a safe and controlled manner.

Thanks in advance for any comments that anybody cares to make on this topic. Sorry if it's a derail of thread.

Tim

 

[Mick!]

For value for money the petrol powered winches look the business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wXP5EdkR9o

 

[Jonny]

What, in your opinion, is the correct tool for the hard pulls? The biggest, baddest powered winch you can get your hands on, or something else? What do the folks that have to lift whole trees off of houses use, short of a crane? I'm asking for the most robust, but low cost solution to the problem of moving huge amounts of weight in a safe

I doubt I'd use the MCRP for much lifting at all. Anything rated around 1500lbs has no business in lowering loads. I bought it to pull leaning trees where I want them to go. Maybe for pre-tensioning, but there's better options. GRCS is made for lifting.

The gas winch Mick posted, as well as the chainsaw powered Lewis winches are cool as hell, they'll pull some weight.

 

[stig]

For an absolute failsafe pull, nothing beats a Tirfor.
Dead slow, but it will never let you down in a "when push comes to shove" moment.

 

[Tim_B.]

Thanks Mick, Johnny Hart and Stig! Your comments are all greatly appreciated. I have much to think about, and research to do. Thanks for giving me a great place to start looking.

Tim

 

[Tim_B.]

I doubt I'd use the MCRP for much lifting at all. Anything rated around 1500lbs has no business in lowering loads. I bought it to pull leaning trees where I want them to go. Maybe for pre-tensioning, but there's better options. GRCS is made for lifting.

The gas winch Mick posted, as well as the chainsaw powered Lewis winches are cool as hell, they'll pull some weight.

Yes, pulling trees is what I had in mind. I would back up whichever device I used with a lowering device like the Stein bollards, which would be used for the lowering aspect once the lift was completed. Thanks.

Tim