How'd it go today?
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woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I bet after that rope broke you might have been open to some new ideas.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Had the budget allowed... a rope would not have been broken. I took a chance on something I thought might work. I had made no promises other than not hitting a white vinyl fence (which I did not) and try to save as many trees possible (I hit 2 instead of 1 of which one was quite hollow and unhealthy) 
. Had I bid the tree as a removal and promised to place it exactly up hill in the lay I wanted or a critical target..... there would have been wire rope and a D6 or D8 or I would have climbed it and adjusted the weight, or I would have just climbed it and bombed the tree down....The customer would have then been charged accordingly for my decisive bid. To set a wire rope and chocker would have required me to climb the tree to set the rigging. no matter what you used to pull it. Open to new ideas? I don't know what you mean. If the tree needed to be precise for the customer, I would have used something else in my bag of tricks. 
I was disappointed I was not able to fell the tree up hill in a timely fashion and how it might look to a customer or neighbour. Why I felt the way I did about it. I still got paid to experiment with the limits of that particular set up. I also sold them another day to get more done that I will be paid the rate I was going to charge anyway.
One other issue I had with the tree was it branched off in 5 different codoms at 40 foot high. Setting a higher line would have given me a better pulling advantage, but only setting one leader would have probably torn it off the tree. Each one had a week attachment. We were able to shoot the line over a couple limbs right where we could send a running bowline up to the base of the codoms to pull with out climbing and also bind the codom in case of failure. So it was deemed "worth a shot"
. Had I bid the tree as a removal and promised to place it exactly up hill in the lay I wanted or a critical target..... there would have been wire rope and a D6 or D8 or I would have climbed it and adjusted the weight, or I would have just climbed it and bombed the tree down....The customer would have then been charged accordingly for my decisive bid. To set a wire rope and chocker would have required me to climb the tree to set the rigging. no matter what you used to pull it. Open to new ideas? I don't know what you mean. If the tree needed to be precise for the customer, I would have used something else in my bag of tricks. I was disappointed I was not able to fell the tree up hill in a timely fashion and how it might look to a customer or neighbour. Why I felt the way I did about it. I still got paid to experiment with the limits of that particular set up. I also sold them another day to get more done that I will be paid the rate I was going to charge anyway.
One other issue I had with the tree was it branched off in 5 different codoms at 40 foot high. Setting a higher line would have given me a better pulling advantage, but only setting one leader would have probably torn it off the tree. Each one had a week attachment. We were able to shoot the line over a couple limbs right where we could send a running bowline up to the base of the codoms to pull with out climbing and also bind the codom in case of failure. So it was deemed "worth a shot"
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
It was just an offhand remark, you being cautious and wisely calculating all the time, it seems. Taking a chance on occasion doesn't seem such a disparity within this business, kind of ties in with my gambling thread, perhaps, and like MB said, not going overboard about it. Sorry about your
rope.
rope.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
It's only a tad shorter
I consider myself pretty lucky Jay. I get to safely push the limits once in a while, get paid for it, and only risk a little rigging and possibly some inconsequential target. Better that than find out the limits of my gear over or next to a house or something
I sometimes get discouraged when things don't go the way I would have liked, but I get to settle down and see what knowledge I have gathered from the experience at the end of the day with little consequence.
I consider myself pretty lucky Jay. I get to safely push the limits once in a while, get paid for it, and only risk a little rigging and possibly some inconsequential target. Better that than find out the limits of my gear over or next to a house or something
I sometimes get discouraged when things don't go the way I would have liked, but I get to settle down and see what knowledge I have gathered from the experience at the end of the day with little consequence.
"Sometimes the bear gets you", indeed.
IMO it is the bear that makes this work interesting.
Sometimes we push the edges of the envelope and get away with it, sometimes we do, and it bites us in the ass.
It is the possibility of failure that makes the heart rate go up when doing a difficult falling job. If not for that, one might as well work in a bank.
Death is the mother of beauty!
Which of course doesn't detract from the fact that one always feels like a failure when one goes wrong.
But we've all been there and that is one of the good things about this place.
IMO it is the bear that makes this work interesting.
Sometimes we push the edges of the envelope and get away with it, sometimes we do, and it bites us in the ass.
It is the possibility of failure that makes the heart rate go up when doing a difficult falling job. If not for that, one might as well work in a bank.
Death is the mother of beauty!
Which of course doesn't detract from the fact that one always feels like a failure when one goes wrong.
But we've all been there and that is one of the good things about this place.
I got a call yeaterday from a logger who is into birdwatching like me.
He had seen 6 smews in the only open water in the local fiord.
That is one bird that I have never had any luck with.I've chased them all over the place, but never seen one.
So my wife and I went up there today, and lo and behold; the six of them were still there.
THAT made my day
He had seen 6 smews in the only open water in the local fiord.
That is one bird that I have never had any luck with.I've chased them all over the place, but never seen one.
So my wife and I went up there today, and lo and behold; the six of them were still there.
THAT made my day
pete mctree
Treehouser
What rope & what knot failed? I'm always curious when things go wrong, especially on my own jobs. I can get obsessed on how & why I messed up. Usually "human error" is the cause in my case 
SoonerFan
TreeHouser
Stig, beautiful bird. Is that an internet picture or one you took?
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Been working seven days a week with our ice storm since returning from two funerals.
Sorta checked outta the House for a bit.
After my friend's suicide, my very, very sick Dad passed on. An end of suffering on both of their parts. Still dealing with it. My Dad had early-onset Parkinson's Disease for over 25 years, and passed away at 71, after spending the past two years bed-bound. He was long since ready to go. When Amy and I visited a year ago, we said our goodbyes, as he was in the hospital again. Didn't expect him to hold on for a whole 'nother year.
Dealing with it alright.
Gives a new perspective on life, having lost a parent.
Focusing on the soon to arrive little girl, due around March 26th, give or take, as first mothers often deliver 'late'. 37-42 weeks is 'normal'.
Was trying to taper off of work, but with the 2.5 weeks off of work cutting in to my vacation/ sick leave for paternity leave and traveling expensess, this snow and ice storm is helping.
I've been waiting for a good storm for the last 4 winters of being in business. Feast and famine.
Sorta checked outta the House for a bit.
After my friend's suicide, my very, very sick Dad passed on. An end of suffering on both of their parts. Still dealing with it. My Dad had early-onset Parkinson's Disease for over 25 years, and passed away at 71, after spending the past two years bed-bound. He was long since ready to go. When Amy and I visited a year ago, we said our goodbyes, as he was in the hospital again. Didn't expect him to hold on for a whole 'nother year.
Dealing with it alright.
Gives a new perspective on life, having lost a parent.
Focusing on the soon to arrive little girl, due around March 26th, give or take, as first mothers often deliver 'late'. 37-42 weeks is 'normal'.
Was trying to taper off of work, but with the 2.5 weeks off of work cutting in to my vacation/ sick leave for paternity leave and traveling expensess, this snow and ice storm is helping.
I've been waiting for a good storm for the last 4 winters of being in business. Feast and famine.
Stolen from the internet.
I used to have a 640 mm Novoflex telephoto with pistolgrip, shoulderstock and the whole works.
I sold off all my equipment just before everything went digital, today I only have a compact camera.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
9/16ths Stable Braid at the running bowline on the trunk. I have yet to find out exactly where in the knot it failed, I suspect the bend radius at the bight. I will not know until I buck it all up next month and uncover the piece of rope. I had two horse chestnut to coax over as well so not everything got done that day. Probably wait on it until we can burn the slash as we go. Going to burn the whole tree to dispose of it. Each round off the trunk (which is now bridged across a low point) is going to have to be secured by rope or chocking to keep them from running down hill into a white vinyl fence and automatic iron gate. We will probably start brushing out the multiple tops and use some of the wood to build a wall to catch some of them. The up hill lay had many advantages I wanted to exploitWhat rope & what knot failed? I'm always curious when things go wrong, especially on my own jobs. I can get obsessed on how & why I messed up. Usually "human error" is the cause in my case
That is a really cool duck Stig. A smew... Cool indeed you got to see them first hand.
Burnham
Woods walker
Thanks for the video of the Pirate ORCA, Stephen. Looks nice, for sure.
Not having any good idea of how the lay of the land stands re the grey pine set-back, I can only say that my usual fallback on a pull needing some muscle would be to use the 12k Warn winch on my pickup, with ma if deemed needed. Obviously the bull rope needed to be stronger, so that proposition may have ended similarly...hindsight always makes things clearer, eh?
Did you consider a jack, after the set-back?
Another thought...did you continue to drive the wedges in conjunction with the pull line tensioning? I understand your problem with the mushy wood fiber...may not have been useful in this case, but consider use of both wedges and pull line, or jack and pull line, or all three, to aid and support each other, sharing the load needed to commit a reluctant and heavy tree.
Not having any good idea of how the lay of the land stands re the grey pine set-back, I can only say that my usual fallback on a pull needing some muscle would be to use the 12k Warn winch on my pickup, with ma if deemed needed. Obviously the bull rope needed to be stronger, so that proposition may have ended similarly...hindsight always makes things clearer, eh?
Did you consider a jack, after the set-back?
Another thought...did you continue to drive the wedges in conjunction with the pull line tensioning? I understand your problem with the mushy wood fiber...may not have been useful in this case, but consider use of both wedges and pull line, or jack and pull line, or all three, to aid and support each other, sharing the load needed to commit a reluctant and heavy tree.
Burnham
Woods walker
Beautiful bird, Stig. Good going.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Yes, the jack would have also been perfect for the job, something missing from my goodie bag and something I forgot to add to my previous post. Maybe all three would have worked.
The wedges and pulling were used together. There just came a point where the pulling was not moving the tree and the wedges were pinned and literally pressed into the stump.
Hind sight is always clearer and sometimes makes for comic relief.
The wedges and pulling were used together. There just came a point where the pulling was not moving the tree and the wedges were pinned and literally pressed into the stump.
Hind sight is always clearer
and sometimes makes for comic relief.
brendonv
Tree Hugger
I ran a skidder all morning. To bad I couldn't reach the pedals though! Waiting for UPS to bring my spur pads, try 'em out. I've got 6 big spruces to limb on Wednesday, that'll be the real test.
Gotta climb some trees and change light bulbs for an electrician tomorrow. Easy
Gotta climb some trees and change light bulbs for an electrician tomorrow. Easy
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
I had a sugar maple get stubborn with me and not want to go over just the other day. Top was dead and had some bad seams that I didn't trust and I had to tie it off much lower then I would have liked so i coukd have piece of mind that I had the rope tied to some sound wood. Not a gigantic tree but big enough. Hooked it to a Chevy 1 ton pickup with a fair amount of weight in the back and meaty tires. I opted to have the driver pull it over in high range because I have seen one too many people use low range and jerk the tree over to violently. I felt high range would give me the power needed but give it more progressively and smoothly. The tree had a serious backlean as well. Bottomed out the wedges and the truck really had to reach deep down to get that tree to start moving. I wasn't extremely thrilled with how it all panned out. Yes, the tree went over, yes it hit dead on where I planned and intended, but I lacked the fluent motion that I prefer to see.
Burnham
Woods walker
Did you gut the hinge?
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I can so relate to that love of the fluid motion. In my mind, once you see that motion, you know your plan was right and you are in perfect control of the situation. If that makes sense.
Yes.
Yes.
brendonv
Tree Hugger
Anyone gut it from the face cut after you realize it's a PITA to pull over? Someone recommended that on here once, handy trick.
arborworks1
Treehouser
I have done that a time or two! Real handy tip that was.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
I didn't gut the hinge. Maybe I should have, maybe not. The tree was mostly dead and I had a very hard time giving up too much of my hinge wood. It was a psychological thing for me. With conifers, I gut the hinge constantly, with hardwoods that have a stringy bendy nature to them, I go for it also if need be. But with hardwoods that have become less bendy, and more brittle, I get very iffy and try to keep as much hange as i can get away with. I suppose i could have gutted the hinge, but standing there in the moment, I opted to stay the course I was on. Ya know what I mean?
Burnham
Woods walker
Sure...but consider, if you gut the hinge, you can leave beefier hingewood at the corners, where it counts the most. Dead is dead though, I hear you.
For you guys gutting from the front...you have to be cautious with that if you're doing it after the back cut is progressed significantly...if you've got wedges set hard, or a pull line tensioned and decide it needs gutting, do so with just the bottom corner of the bar tip, dragging it across the center part of the hinge taking just a little wood at a time. If you get too aggressive, the tree might take off to the face on you and if your bar is in deepish, you may well lose the saw before you can extract it.
A better plan might be to gut from the rear. You still have to be careful of pushing the bar deeply through the front of the hinge, but if the tree starts to go it's a more forgiving position to be in, pulling out.
If you're setting wedges, make it a practice to set two far enough apart to bore between them. I ALWAYS do that on a fair to backleaning tree.
For you guys gutting from the front...you have to be cautious with that if you're doing it after the back cut is progressed significantly...if you've got wedges set hard, or a pull line tensioned and decide it needs gutting, do so with just the bottom corner of the bar tip, dragging it across the center part of the hinge taking just a little wood at a time. If you get too aggressive, the tree might take off to the face on you and if your bar is in deepish, you may well lose the saw before you can extract it.
A better plan might be to gut from the rear. You still have to be careful of pushing the bar deeply through the front of the hinge, but if the tree starts to go it's a more forgiving position to be in, pulling out.
If you're setting wedges, make it a practice to set two far enough apart to bore between them. I ALWAYS do that on a fair to backleaning tree.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I've had a tree set down on a saw when boring from the front. Stuck is the word.
Burnham
Woods walker
If it set back, that could happen boring from the rear as well. If the wood is sound, wedges will prevent it either way.
But we've just recently talked about what can happen if the wood fiber is not.
We're always better gutting the hinge before starting the back cut. But we don't always have the foresight.
But we've just recently talked about what can happen if the wood fiber is not
.We're always better gutting the hinge before starting the back cut. But we don't always have the foresight
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