X-Rigging Slings
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kevin bingham
TreeHouser
- Joined
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Yeah, either way I as well wish him luck. I do appreciate him introducing those rings to tree climbers but they would have made it here sooner or later. I know a few arbos who also love the water. I feel arbos and sailors are of the same cloth and I have dropped way too much money at the west marine outlet here in town. I had not seen these rings there yet. I gather they are just now catching on at sea as well.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I don't know how I've gotten along w/o them.
I'll continue that way.
I'll continue that way.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
Youre so silly Butch. I bet you climb on a taut line.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
Thasss right!
chris_girard
Treehouser
Lumberjack, I have bought David's slings and used them on a vertical spar fishing pole technique for a very dead Pine that needed to rigged down. No room out back for a crane or bucket truck. The tree was strapped with load binder straps and the XRR slings were placed in between them. IMO, you can never be too safe, so to me they make a lot of sense to use on a vertical spar in a situation like this.
I am glad that David brought them into the tree care industry and don't feel misled at all. Same way that I didn't feel misled when Greg came out with the GRCS.
tophopper
The resident asshole
Im going to comment here on the fishing pole technique as many are eluding to an exceptional feature of these rings. In 20 years I have yet to see a tree which it is extensively required. Generally the load can be distributed among many other points throughout the tree. That is not to say it isn't ever required because sometimes it may be, but very, very rarely.
One scenario where it is required is when the spar itself needs to be blocked down piece by piece into rigging. In this event I'm always going to use blocks. I would never consider dumping the heaviest parts of the tree into an aluminum ring. Blocks all the way. Each block is strung and positioned as the rigging system is being built, the tops of tree rigged out appropriately, then as the spar is dissected one piece at a time, each block is already pre-placed and ready to be used, because they were placed accordingly in advance with anticipation of blocking down the spar. And again, IMO, the only thing Id use for this situation would be a heavy rigging block, not an aluminum ring.
I will button up that statement by again saying, I think the idea is innovative and there IS some application for these rigging slings to be used. But by far, the application is for those who over build their rigging systems and generally over rig to begin with.
And yeah, yeah......you'd rather over rig than under rig right? Well of course you would, but your best riggers will nail it without over rigging which is time consuming and unnecessary.
My 2 cents
One scenario where it is required is when the spar itself needs to be blocked down piece by piece into rigging. In this event I'm always going to use blocks. I would never consider dumping the heaviest parts of the tree into an aluminum ring. Blocks all the way. Each block is strung and positioned as the rigging system is being built, the tops of tree rigged out appropriately, then as the spar is dissected one piece at a time, each block is already pre-placed and ready to be used, because they were placed accordingly in advance with anticipation of blocking down the spar. And again, IMO, the only thing Id use for this situation would be a heavy rigging block, not an aluminum ring.
I will button up that statement by again saying, I think the idea is innovative and there IS some application for these rigging slings to be used. But by far, the application is for those who over build their rigging systems and generally over rig to begin with.
And yeah, yeah......you'd rather over rig than under rig right? Well of course you would, but your best riggers will nail it without over rigging which is time consuming and unnecessary.
My 2 cents
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I've never seen a need for that fishing pole rigging. Perhaps one day...
One of the primary reasons for fish pole rigging is to prevent overloading a questionable spar/tree/etc. When I am that concerned about overloading, rather than using a block, which would yield a ~2:1 load factor at the rigging point, I use a porty or BMS belay spool. That way, the dynamic forces are lessened because the load line is not run from a brake at ground level, through a block at the rigging point, and then terminated at the rigged piece. Instead, the wraps are taken at the rigging point, and the dynamic load is lessened.
tophopper
The resident asshole
If I were that worried about the integrity of a spar, I probably wouldn't be climbing it.
Using a spool or friction device up top is a great idea to lessen the forces, but rigging rings would be no advantage, and that's part of the point I was making.
Using a spool or friction device up top is a great idea to lessen the forces, but rigging rings would be no advantage, and that's part of the point I was making.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
One time for me... Questionable tree... Had a good tie in else where. I figued if one rigging point failed, the next might just hold it. Only about 4 point all told... I also had my "OH shite" lanyard on... 
My sentiments exactly! However, there are those times when it's wise to be delicate with the forces exerted on the stem, and rather than depend on the fishpole technique to disperse the forces, I prefer to lessen them outright.
tophopper
The resident asshole
Exactly why the fishpole technique has such a limited scope. But hey if you spin it just right, people will line up. Especially to those that over rig and are easily enamored.
I wanted one for a totally different reason, but then I'm a different kind of tree critter from most here.
I thought it would be nice to have one tucked away in the truck for those times when we accidentally (( since we do run apprentices) ( ask me about the top of a doug fir that landed in a creek yesterday, which we'll have to winch up soon's we get a skidder on the job)) drop a log across a forest road and need a redirect in order to pull it to the side with the trucks.
But with a splicer in the company, I think I'll opt for the cheap solution.
I thought it would be nice to have one tucked away in the truck for those times when we accidentally (( since we do run apprentices) ( ask me about the top of a doug fir that landed in a creek yesterday, which we'll have to winch up soon's we get a skidder on the job
)) drop a log across a forest road and need a redirect in order to pull it to the side with the trucks.But with a splicer in the company, I think I'll opt for the cheap solution.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
I wanted one for a totally different reason, but then I'm a different kind of tree critter from most here.
I thought it would be nice to have one tucked away in the truck for those times when we accidentally (( since we do run apprentices) ( ask me about the top of a doug fir that landed in a creek yesterday, which we'll have to winch up soon's we get a skidder on the job
But with a splicer in the company, I think I'll opt for the cheap solution.
You would have loved the lovely grey pine we yarded out of the creek not too long ago with the pick up and a good high block
Amen to the spliced solution.. I wanna try those in line style ones...
Actually Martin was pretty much blameless on that top.
I'd told him that if he got any of that doug fir into the class 1 creek, he'd be the one to put on waders and clean it up.
He put that fir right next to the creek, against the wind and using about a dozen wedges. Just a beautiful precise fell and the frigging top snapped off and flew sideways into the creek.
He was soooo pissed off
I'd told him that if he got any of that doug fir into the class 1 creek, he'd be the one to put on waders and clean it up.
He put that fir right next to the creek, against the wind and using about a dozen wedges. Just a beautiful precise fell and the frigging top snapped off and flew sideways into the creek.
He was soooo pissed off
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
With a good groundman, over rigging is silly. Ive never come into a need to fish pole rig a spar. I either take smaller sections if they cant be allowed to run, or full size pieces and have a groundman that knows how to run em and slow em down nicely. Its downward pressure on the spar for the most part when blocking down logs on a rope. If the tree is compromised enough to fail under downward pressure then rigging it down manually on the gaffs needs to be rethought.
Ive said it before and will say it again. The best climbers I know couldn't be bothered by over rigging. Real climbers. Not pretty boy show boat climbers that decorate the tree with gadgets like a Christmas tree. The kind of climbers that make you reach for a camera and say "he cant be serious?". Those types that Ive been mentored by and lucky enough to work with, need some solid ropes and lowering blocks, and if you prefer, a port a wrap. Otherwise they laugh at and walk away from high dollar toys and gadgets that you propose to them. I cant say if I fall into the category of a mean climber. I view myself poorly in a tree. But with that said, I get em all done lickity split with old fashioned nitty gritty rigging.
Ive said it before and will say it again. The best climbers I know couldn't be bothered by over rigging. Real climbers. Not pretty boy show boat climbers that decorate the tree with gadgets like a Christmas tree. The kind of climbers that make you reach for a camera and say "he cant be serious?". Those types that Ive been mentored by and lucky enough to work with, need some solid ropes and lowering blocks, and if you prefer, a port a wrap. Otherwise they laugh at and walk away from high dollar toys and gadgets that you propose to them. I cant say if I fall into the category of a mean climber. I view myself poorly in a tree. But with that said, I get em all done lickity split with old fashioned nitty gritty rigging.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Whoever thunk that up that had too much time on their hands and wanted to look like they "invented" something to impress their peers.
IMO
IMO
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Actually Martin was pretty much blameless on that top.
I'd told him that if he got any of that doug fir into the class 1 creek, he'd be the one to put on waders and clean it up.
He put that fir right next to the creek, against the wind and using about a dozen wedges. Just a beautiful precise fell and the frigging top snapped off and flew sideways into the creek.
He was soooo pissed off
I can just picture the expression on his face when the top jumped into the dang creek.....
Poor guy 
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
My thoughts are the same. I fail to see how fish pole rigging a vertical spar does anything to increase the strength of the rigging system or tree. The way I picture it, all the force in the system is on the upper block and the lower friction device. Those rings/blocks in between are just going to be flopping away. If someone can explain to me otherwise I'd like to hear it.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
It's all smoke and mirrors, so to speak.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
The only way I figure it can strengthen the rigging is if you add slight angles to wit there is a small amount of tension and pressure at each rigging point vs one or two. Where's Kenny??
Bushwackertree
TreeHouser
You dont have to fish pole rig everything just some tree's. Here I rig alot of Logde Pole pines (Pinus contorta) that are tall and skinny. I fish pole rig these due to flex in the trunk when catching a top, think of it like this.... If you look at a fishing rod there are five eye's along the rod, now if you remove everyone but the eye at the tip (nothing between the tip and the reel) now you hook a 15lb fish and you start hauling what is likely to happen the rod itself will fail about mid way between the tip and the reel and more than likely your going home hungry. Now if you replace the eye's and start hauling that 15lb fish you will be eating good because those eye's helped distribute the force equally along the entire rod. Now these aren't only for that style of rigging, we use them for redirect's for our winch line on our chipper, GRCS, rigging out limbs, setting a retrievable rigging point and I have found they work very well with our Stien Dual, they sure beat packing a bunch of blocks and slings up the tree, I can take all my X-rings up with me hanging off my belt no problem, can't do that with all my blocks and slings! What they can be used for is up to the user's imagination. Again my 2cts. It is what it is and will be what it will be.
Ben
Bushwacker Tree
Ben
Bushwacker Tree
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Thanks for that explanation Ben. I guess I wasn't accounting for the possibility of that much flex in the stem. Do you find that you take less of a ride when catching the top when doing the fish pole rigging vs not?
