X-Rigging Slings

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Ha, that's awesome you found that. I'm betting he just had the manufacturer put his name on them. Identical Markings.

That's fine and dandy, until people realize they can buy them separately, like most asked in the first place on the TB. If I was the friction saver type they would make a nice one. Only time I use one is on a crane though.
 
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Extreme Arborist Supply said that they would only distribute single rings to 'trusted splicers' known on the Buzz. Originally I though this was a new innovation so thinking from a small-time perspective that made sense, limiting liability. I would have to imagine that Antal holds the patent for the rings so theoretically anyone could make and sell them.

It irks me a little, that basically we have just bought, and marked up a relatively unchanged product and then basically told the public that only the arbitrarily 'qualified' can have them when in reality anybody can buy them.

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https://www.treestuff.com/store/products.asp?category_id=455
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http://www.shopsoundboatworks.com/anfrri.html
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http://www.shopsoundboatworks.com/an70dylolfri.html
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I know what you mean, Nick. I was for some reason under the impression that he was having these things machined as well.

It's not really a new product like the HH, or RW, but just a really overhyped re-branding campaign.
 
I wouldn't exactly call them generic.

More like original. To me it looks like DD worked out a deal to have his name branded on someone else's rings. Splices them into the cheapest sling material available and charges a premium price.
 
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Its just tact Jon!

I imagine Dave debated for a while about posting, he will likely see it as an affront. But in all fairness if I find a nice hammer at the store I dont order one with my name on it and sell it as my invention for 2x the price. If there was a change to it somehow, or assembly then I would understand.

When I tell people about APTA devices I always offer to tell them how to make their own especially the straight 6 footers. Its just a ball valve and a shraeder valve and some gas pipe, no big secret.
 
Being tactful is cool. Im not going to get involved in the TB thread, but it seems to me a real professional would have disclosed the origin from the beginning. I guess profit and praise are more important to some.
 
I will start off saying wow. Pick a product apart! First off, how many products do we use on our daily job sites that were intended for something other than tree work, GRCS for example. Secondly, I would have probably never found these rings on my own let alone invested money and time into design, marketing, insurance just to bring them to market. Thirdly,I never heard DD say he was the inventor of these rings nor do I care whos idea they are (see first comment) I still support the x-ring and what DD has brought to market, as I have said before this is a awesome tool in my rigging bag.

Ben
Bushwacker Tree
 
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No offense, Ben, but we firmly gather you're a staunch supporter of the slings. I can't see having product liability insurance as cheap as he's selling them.

However, I agree with you and have no problem with him making money on the slings. I still say they're "nifty" but aren't revolutionary by any standard.
 
I concur, I like them, probably will have some just for certain applications in one of my rigging bags. But, they will have a specialised application and are not a fix all for all my rigging needs. Just because I state my opinion on my personal preferences in what I use as gear, is not intended to be picking something apart. Just expressing my preferences. What works for me. I don't just buy something that is shiny, new, sparkly and the new coolest widget ma bob that comes along. I buy stuff that works for me and makes money in my demographic with my kit. Or makes my job easier and more efficient that also equates to more money....
They really are a neat new product. I commend him on his innovation and marketing. Are they going to work for every one and are they for every one to have in a bag of tricks?.. Probably knot. But for those that the do... how cool is that? ;)
 
Sorry if I came off at everyone as picking it apart, but it was more aimed at a few in the last few pages of comments. I understand that this product is not for everyone and no I have not taken the x-ring blue bill. As for revolutionary no but being a useful tool yes, we use them everyday. As for the picker aparter's let's see you do something like DD and then have someone do what u are doing and pick at your product.

Ben
Bushwacker Tree
 
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  • #68
He went on this big thing about how only certain people are qualified enough to use them and that single rings are only available to the people he deemed worthy. I guess what he meant was anyone that can walk into West Marine Supply??

He didnt bring anything to market or spend any thousands of dollars marketing, its an existing product being used the exact same way, all he did was put a tenex sling on it, just another hollow braid like the dyneema slings already offered, anyone with a coat hanger and some whipping could do that.

I was supportive originally but was spurned when asking about individual rings. As it happens someone found the rings available for sale elsewhere, that maes anyone that talks about it a bad guy? You want to buy a Harken winch and make your own GRCS go ahead, you wont hear Greg Good complaining. Want to buy a ballvalve and make a throwball launcher, you wont hear me complain thats for sure.

He never should have tried to bring something like that to market, there is no assembly or innovation. He simply should have started a thread called 'Antal Low Friction Rings' and shared his 'discovery' with everyone else like we all do everyday, which is the spirit of what this place and 'the Buzz really is. Attempting to capitalize by rebranding a Craftsman Screwdriver wont get you anywhere buddy..
 
I'm sorry but I agree with Nick as well.

I posted over there that I was going to buy 2 antals and he implied they were cheap cast rings with ridges in the middle that would "stimulate" rope to break. A few posts later he admits they're the antals and gets a free pass on another half truth from his "fans."

I also agree that the liability insurance thing is somehow not what it seems based on cost, and probably is another half truth that he has some extra liability insurance for use of them in his business or something.

Like others have said it's not that the product isn't useful, it's just not his idea. He clearly introduced it as his.
 
It seems the antal rings are pretty new in the marine market as well. I do believe they are fairly revolutionary. I do feel a little mislead honestly. I talked to DD for almost 45 minutes at tcia and definitely walked away thinking he designed them. I didn't buy any because I didn't want to buy a splice. I will definitely be ordering a few of these. I also am unsure why anyone would go through the trouble of retesting these. Antal seems to have tested them thoroughly. I also assume they are insured. You have to be as sure about your equipment on a boat as you do a tree. I don't know why as nick said, dd just didn't post a link on the buzz saying "hey check these out!".
 
I would guess that the reason for the retest is to see if they could stand up to the rigors/riggers of tree work.
 
Yeah, but rope is rope and weight is weight and force is force wether your in a tree or on a boat. I guess I'm unclear wether he had them load tested in a lab or he took them to work with him and tested them at work. The data on the antal website gives me all the information I need to make reasonable decisions with them in a tree. They are a respected and established company.
 
I said so over at TB.

My apologies to David, I didnt mean to attack his livelihood. I still feel the same way however, and that's mislead about the origin of the rings. I dont really care who makes them, but its something I feel he should have disclosed from the get go, I mean why wouldn't you? Anyway, I too think he has created an innovative blend of 2 products that Im sure many will find useful. Who knows maybe myself as well. Beyond that, do I feel he evaded the fact? Absolutely I do, and I have to wonder why. Do I care? No.

Water off a duck's back

Good luck with your product line David.
 
kevin bingham said:
Yeah, but rope is rope and weight is weight and force is force wether your in a tree or on a boat. I guess I'm unclear wether he had them load tested in a lab or he took them to work with him and tested them at work. The data on the antal website gives me all the information I need to make reasonable decisions with them in a tree. They are a respected and established company.
Click to expand...

I'll give you that rope is rope and whatnot. Maybe he did it for his own piece of mind.
 
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