Those Cali fires!!!

Rotax Robert said:
Mudslides will be next in store for those burned off areas
Click to expand...

Yes, another part of the cycle of that ecosystem. It will be forgotten as well in about 15 years, then another big burn will come thru and everyone will be "devastated at the loss" Whatever, its been that way in Southern California for a long time. Folks want to build and live in an area that BURNS and has burned for a good 2-300 years for sure, Either they know the risk and accept it, or are ignorant of their surroundings and history. Cry me a river.:blob6:
 
wiley_p said:
Ditto! I used to have a hard time seeming concerned when I was working fall fires in the "urban interface" areas. I thought they were whining idiots for building in a fuel type like those canyons.
Click to expand...

I still feel badly for folks but isn't any big surprise their houses are burning. If I was down there I would not be taking risks to save those homes. The first instructor I had in wildland fire put it this way, "Should you run to the head of the fire and save that house? First ask yourself, 'Is that my house?' 'No it isn't,' second, 'did I start that fire?' No."
 
I empathise with them also.A lot of things are just common sense.People stick houses on outcrops from unstable cliffs and the first earthquake the house slids down the hill.On the east coastal regions they build on stilts on the beach front.Along comes a big wave driven by a hurricane and good bye house.

The choice of building materials enter into it.Masonary works just fine here,no earthquakes.In south Florida with a moisture problem it's just about manditory.In those southern California semi desert areas frame construction certainly is not the best choice for construction methods that's for sure.There are better ways but costly.Then just about anything is costly in California.

Oh yes,the mud will be next,heavens what a mess.:(
 
Old Monkey said:
The first instructor I had in wildland fire put it this way, "Should you run to the head of the fire and save that house? First ask yourself, 'Is that my house?' 'No it isn't,' second, 'did I start that fire?' No."
Click to expand...

I dont think I like your instructors attitude. Kind of like having a new worker pick and choose what type of work they will do on the job.
 
We worked on Type 1 handcrews Frans, Hothots are the best people on the planet at suppressing wildland fires in the roughest terrain that exists. You have to be smart about it, Fight fire aggressively provide for safety first. Believe me there isn't anyone that does a better job than those guys. We have saved countless homes, towns, tracts of timber, and are long gone on the way to the next blowup that the IA folks couldn't get a handle on. You don't often see Hotshots on the news because where we often were, everyone had already run away screaming. :evil:
 
This whole management of wildland areas is a huge problem. My Dad tells me that before WWII there used to be small fires burning all summer because no one had the resources to do anything about it. Since WWII we have allocated the resources to putting out the small fires and as result we have huge tracts of wildland that haven't burned in many years. Add to the mix many homes now built in the wildland areas because they are so beautiful. In Mexico they don't have this problem because as soon as a fire gets going with Santa Ana winds after a little while it runs into where it burned last year or a few years ago and there is no fuel or little fuel and the fire goes out on it's own. If the Forest Service tries to do control burns to setup something like the natural mosaic of burned wildland then they get all sorts of flack from the people living in the homes there. Plus they take on a huge responsibility if the fires gets out of control. Here you go Wilting, and fighting the fires is also big business. Not by guys like OM but by the contractors that supply all the food, water trucks, bulldozers, lowboys, aircraft, fueling, mechanics, and the such. I went on 3 large fires as part of an OES strike team and I saw helicopters going from dawn to dusk dropping water on fires burning with a relative humidity under 30% and winds in excess of 20 MPH, you might as well be peeing on it as running the helicopter. I know that there might be stuff that I don't know, like it might not cost the State much more if the helicopter is going than if it is on standby and things like that but it seemed like such a waste to me. We were on structure protection and would be stationed at some house and would just hang around all day. Trying to think of ways to pass the time and getting standard city firefighter wages. After 8 hours we were on OT 24 hours a day. Came out to about $800/day for each one of us. I know that you can't do this on the cheap, but like I said it's big business. This has been going on for a long time and we are kind of backed into a corner.
 
I know, I am not putting down Hotshots, I have worked with alot of them.
The attitude OM related of: If it's not my house dont save it. That sucks. Bet OM did'nt mean to say that, but who knows? Bad attitude of his supervisor
 
800/day, funny as a squad leader and medic on a Hotshot crew I was getting just a few pennies over 10.00 and hour. :lol:
 
I think that attitude that he wanted to present was; don't get yourself hurt or killed or get any equipment damaged because it isn't your job to save their house at any cost they took on this risk when they built in the forest and these houses in the wildland complicate the fire suppression effort immensely. Your job is to do your best within the parameter of doing so safely. Any time there is a firefighter death or serious injury the supervisor's actions leading up to the circumstances causing the injury/death come under scrutiny. So they tell you "you didn't start the fire, you didn't make them build their house here, so you shouldn't become emotionally invested in saving their house if it would mean undue risk to yourself, your teammates, or your equipment, to do so would be just be adding to the trajedy. If you can save it fine, but if you need to cut and run, do it, don't feel like you have failed, it couldn't be helped".
 
wiley_p said:
800/day, funny as a squad leader and medic on a Hotshot crew I was getting just a few pennies over 10.00 and hour. :lol:
Click to expand...

I know, and you probably got the hard jobs like putting in a handline in terrain too steep for a bulldozer while we were trying to keep ourselves occupied.
 
Darin's quote was prefaced with "Running to the head of the fire" to save a house. The head of a fire is a dangerous place and NOT the place to be concentrating on structure protection.
 
stehansen said:
I think that attitude that he wanted to present was; don't get yourself hurt or killed or get any equipment damaged because it isn't your job to save their house at any cost they took on this risk when they built in the forest and these houses in the wildland complicate the fire suppression effort immensely. Your job is to do your best within the parameter of doing so safely. Any time there is a firefighter death or serious injury the supervisor's actions leading up to the circumstances causing the injury/death come under scrutiny. So they tell you "you didn't start the fire, you didn't make them build their house here, so you shouldn't become emotionally invested in saving their house if it would mean undue risk to yourself, your teammates, or your equipment, to do so would be just be adding to the trajedy. If you can save it fine, but if you need to cut and run, do it, don't feel like you have failed, it couldn't be helped".
Click to expand...


I included your entire post because it pretty well summs up the entire work ethic of every Hotshot I have ever known.


BUT, OM's post said something entirely different.

I dont agree with what OM said, in any way.
 
What the instructor meant was not to run to the head of the fire and be the hero but start at a good anchor point and flank the fire. There is no reason to be a hero for a structure. I have helped save houses, towns, etc. but never by endangering myself.
 
I first learned the concept of 'defensible space' from the Oakland Hills Firestorm.
Entire cul-de-sacs where abandoned because the people had no space in which to stage equipment and personell. So they fell back to the next group of homes.
Seems harsh, but sensible to me.
These people just dont want to make the effort to clear brush from around their homes, say its too expensive then cry when the firefighters wont kill themselves to defend it (the home).
These are the same people who raised a stink with the firefighters from the safety of the shelters as the fire burned....

So far, the total extent of this latest fire is larger in area, but less homes than the oakland fire have been burned.

We were all pretty angry at the City of Oakland because when the fire started, the fire dept. assigned some new (read politically correct firefighter trainees) to monitor the area in case of a flare-up.
It was a steep hill with lots of poison oak and these out of shape ladies did'nt want to struggle around on the hill so they parked and sat in the comfort of their trucks.

Thats one of the main reasons for the oakland hills fire.
 
im seeing alot of pics of burned homes and green palms, are palms fire resistant? or will the heat kill them off in a few weeks?
 
I flew over the fires a few days ago at night - it was surreal to see the flames and smoke from that far up.
 
I've seen a few palms burn and they looked like they were dead and then some little green fronds started coming out of the top a few weeks later and in a couple of months they looked real good. They had black marks up the trunk but that was all you could tell.
 
Wow, now Malibu is burning like crazy. I feel for the folks who are loosing their homes. I hope they all got out okay.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
My hard to start but does start STIHL 211
Replies
21
Views
612
chainsawer4741
C
Trains
Considering some springboards
Replies
15
Views
709
Trains
Trains
Treeaddict
Trail clearing
Replies
5
Views
385
Burnham
Burnham
davidwyby
Neighbors weed smoke makes my yard uninhabitable
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
davidwyby
davidwyby
lxskllr
Best Manual Air Pump?
Replies
7
Views
177
stikine
stikine
Back
Top