Paradise California / Camp FIre

  • Thread starter Thread starter candoarms
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 114
  • Views Views 12K
All the talk about climate change is so short sighted.. Of course the climate is changing .. it always has changed.. sea levels have been rising for 19,000 years.. any coastal cities that may have existed before 12,000 years ago are under a lot of water now.... Historically California has been a lot hotter and dryer than it's been for the last 100 years
 
For sure.
I've seen pollen samples taken from a local lake botom that had all kinds of exotic trees in it.
Was WAY warmer here 3000 years ago.

Why do you think Greenland is called that?
Because when the vikings went there it was green, at least at the southern end.

There are ruins in the middle of the Sahara desert that proves it was once arable land.


The climate is changing, but for the Earth as such, that is old news.

For us humans, who have only been around for a short time and have been stupid enough to build cities at sea level for an even shorter time, bad news.
We are screwed.

Let me just say, that me writing this doesn't mean I condone the "Apres moi le deluge " way we all and Americans especially are using up ressources.

" No God damned commie is gonna tell me I can't run my big V8 truck and get 4 miles to the gallon if I want to!!!!"

Well, wrong thread for this anyway.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #55
To everyone who has responded recently, I wish to thank you for chiming in on this topic. I truly appreciate the feedback and the comments.

Now Stig........this topic is not a bad place to be commenting on climate change. It is because of the perceived man-made climate change that Paradise ended up as it .....ummmm.....was. Every single tree was considered to be a sacred being....off limits to man and his evil hands.

Well, as it turns out, man didn't have much to do with how things turned out in Paradise. In an attempt to save every single damned tree that ever took sprout, those people lost them all.

A much better plan would have been to reduce the number of trees to about 20 percent of what was there. If they would have done that, all of those trees (likely all of them) would have survived this fire. Additionally, there wouldn't be all of the poisons and chemicals in the ground water and soil that came from the burned out homes, cars, and garages.

In this particular case, man's evil ways of cutting timber and reducing tree populations could have saved the environment from much greater harm.

Fire away. Have at it.

Joel
 
Exactly Stig. Humans are the new addition to the equation... Well, at least the modern humans.
Note. I NEVER said human made climate.
Now, back when we were more nomadic and hunter gatherers, we would move with the climate patterns. Egypt is a great example of moving with change. Nile river moved around a great deal, so did the cities along it.
Things got cold, we went to where it was warmer. Modern humans hate change now. I am sure there might have been some grumbling when you had to move a whole tribe to defrost or warm up and eat and drink. Or cool off for that matter. But now, we want to stay planted. Got too used to mild climate.
Go visit the petrified national forest sometime and look at all those big conifers now turned to stone laying horizontal. It will give you some ideas. More like a desert now. Used to be closer to the coast until it crept east from tectonic movement.
Kind of getting off subject. But humans sure have fooled themselves about what control they have over mama earth. She'll fix your decisions no problemo. Some beetles and fire ought to do it.
 
murphy4trees said:
Historically California has been a lot hotter and dryer than it's been for the last 100 years
Click to expand...

Do you have any source for this claim? I bet no.

All i know is that when virtually all of scientists who study this stuff agree, with no reservation, that humans are causing climate change, i have to accept their expertise. In fact, it's been scientific theory and knowledge since at least the 60s. Just as people have to accept your (No one in particular here) experience when it comes to tree work, we have to sometimes submit to others expertise as well. That's what makes an advanced society, division of labor and knowledge. Arguing about how God doesn't exist (once again not directed to anyone), only science is real, but then discounting science when you don't agree with it doesn't make sense. Whether you like it or not, science doesn't care at all, it simply states facts. Science has been wrong before, and will be wrong again, but not exaggerating at all, scientists agree with man made global warming more than the consensus that we understand gravity. Again, science accepts human caused global warming more than gravity (because our theory of gravity doesn't work in macro or micro settings).

Now, lawmakers in possibly the most liberal area in the us may have been incredibly short sided in their laws, and may have inadvertently destroyed what they were trying to protect. Or maybe, in a cynical way, they adopted these policies because nature actually uses fire to clean the area every so often, so once enough people die and enough shit is destroyed maybe insurers realize living in this area is even more risky than living in flood zones and put an end to financing the idea in the first place. At some point we have to admit that sometimes stuff isn't a natural disaster, it's nature doing what it does and we are dumb enough to keep ignoring it.
 
CurSedVoyce said:
Exactly Stig. Humans are the new addition to the equation... Well, at least the modern humans.
Note. I NEVER said human made climate.
Now, back when we were more nomadic and hunter gatherers, we would move with the climate patterns. Egypt is a great example of moving with change. Nile river moved around a great deal, so did the cities along it.
Things got cold, we went to where it was warmer. Modern humans hate change now. I am sure there might have been some grumbling when you had to move a whole tribe to defrost or warm up and eat and drink. Or cool off for that matter. But now, we want to stay planted. Got too used to mild climate.
Go visit the petrified national forest sometime and look at all those big conifers now turned to stone laying horizontal. It will give you some ideas. More like a desert now. Used to be closer to the coast until it crept east from tectonic movement.
Kind of getting off subject. But humans sure have fooled themselves about what control they have over mama earth. She'll fix your decisions no problemo. Some beetles and fire ought to do it.
Click to expand...

Not only closer to the "coast"...that coast was down in what is now northern South America, BEFORE Africa and South America split and drifted to opposite sides of what is now the southern Atlantic Ocean. The time frames are in the billions of years.
 
Yessir. That was a loooong time before humanoid type animals began to exist. The planet will likely still be a dynamic place, long after humanoid type animals are extinct, too.
 
For sure, Gerry. I have great hope we'll be wise enough to do right by our precious little blue ball.

There are many signs, if you look.
 
Tree09 said:
Do you have any source for this claim? I bet no.

All i know is that when virtually all of scientists who study this stuff agree, with no reservation, that humans are causing climate change, i have to accept their expertise..
Click to expand...

UNfortunately I don't have a source for the info on California's climate. I just remember hearing that somewhere... Sure hope I;m not spreading "fake news"... Should have qualified the statement with " think I remember hearing somewhere ....


On the other hand, I have done quite a bit of research on climate change and come to find out there is quite a bit of debate in the scientific community on the scope of man-made climate change... The studies saying 97% of scientists agree are flawed and misleading.. The raw data has been fudged (they got caught doing that in Australia), and the guy who was in charge of keeping the entire world's climate records, wouldn't release the raw data or show the logarithms he was using to process the data for many years, even after being hit with freedom of information requests .. That's hardly scientific....

then there is climategate where the cabal of top scientists got caught trying to figure out ways to overlook data that didn't fit their preconceived theory (that it's man that is causing all this climate change) and colluding to exclude scientists, that in any question the man made climate change theory, from getting published etc.. (that's not to "scientific" either). Al Gore has been thoroughly discredited... Bad info, flawed logic, fearmongering, manipulation, etc.. it's all a giant PR campaign to sell a tax on air... You;re not stupid enough to pay a tax for breathing in so they figures out a way to tax you for breathing out (carbon).. And Al got paid off well for playing his role (takign a dive on the presidential election, and they gave him climate change,) His net worth is up somewhere north of 300 Million...

If you want more info, check out this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEBOfp4OlSavNwfm11Ug2zsmiMCVH3LuP

Here's one I particularly like of a former insider scientist that got ostracized as soon as she began to question the "consensus"...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7zk7Xfyv6k4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Relax peeps, Murph has been researching climate change on our behalf, and guess what? It all nonsense.

Along with the CIA starting AIDS and having a cure for cancer, it’s all good!
 
Dr Currey's bottom line is that we need to implement new energy technologies, rather than focus on wind and solar that aren't up to the task (meet the growing demands for energy)... That is going to be true , whether you believe in carbon dioxide induced catastrophic climate change or not... Taxing carbon isn't going to do a thing except make someone a lot of Money$$$

There is an energy crisis coming...... new technology is the only answer!
 
Now that i can agree on, although i think waste gasification with terra preta storage will be the easiest and most economical, which is ironically very old technology.
 
“Taxing carbon isn't going to do a thing except make someone a lot of Money”

Mr. Gore to the white courtesy phone please...
 
Interesting discussion, over here, you wouldn't be allowed to build a house in the bush now unless you have defendable space around it.
We triage the fire ground for stuctures based on
Defendable by homeowner- cleared space, no fuel loads near house, grasses cut short, ember proof construction and materials, sufficient water hoses and pumps to defend, survivable space for the owners, appropriate clothing
Defendable by homeowners with the assistance of fire fighters- all of the above but we provide extra water and pumps, hoses, clear and usable escape routes, preferably two
Defendable by firefighters- all of the above, with at least two clear and usable escape routes
UNDEFENDABLE - one route in and out, subject to blockage by trees, no cleared space, high fuel loads near house, no water, inappropriate building materials. one or a combination of all.

Sounds like most of your houses would have been undefendable in our triage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

pantheraba
2008 Tree Climbing Rendezvous!
2
Replies
47
Views
7K
pantheraba
pantheraba
Back
Top