O.C.G.D. Thread, part two

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Do you use the Husky face mask with the muffs? That's my intention with mine eventually. I have the one made for the Vertex, but it's wearing out, and I'm not super fond of the new Vertex mounting system. It's kind of fiddly, and doesn't always properly lock in place. I have a Husky forestry helmet, but I used the muffs on one of my Vertexes, and it looks like the faceshield will work well enough. I use that for ground stuff, and the plastic visor in-tree. I find the big shields get caught up too much in branches. What I'd really like is a low profile visor made with screening instead of plastic. That would be the best of both worlds, cause the plastic is hot. I have to raise/lower that, or else it'll be covered in fog/sweat in minutes.
 
lxskllr said:
Do you use the Husky face mask with the muffs? That's my intention with mine eventually. I have the one made for the Vertex, but it's wearing out, and I'm not super fond of the new Vertex mounting system. It's kind of fiddly, and doesn't always properly lock in place. I have a Husky forestry helmet, but I used the muffs on one of my Vertexes, and it looks like the faceshield will work well enough. I use that for ground stuff, and the plastic visor in-tree. I find the big shields get caught up too much in branches. What I'd really like is a low profile visor made with screening instead of plastic. That would be the best of both worlds, cause the plastic is hot. I have to raise/lower that, or else it'll be covered in fog/sweat in minutes.
Click to expand...
I know you don't want to spend the money but the Protos truly is the answer you are looking for. Built in muffs and face screen, lightweight, vented, and very comfortable. I had a Petzl prior and there is no comparison.

And as a bonus you get to look like one of the Power Rangers!
 
Yup. That's my intention with mine after my Vertex shield gets thoroughly trashed. I have that mesh also, which replaced the steel mesh it came with. I like the heavier coarser screen. The fine mesh lights up when sun hits it right, and makes it hard to see.

edit:
The fine mesh also plugs bad when brushcutting...

20210722_111124.jpg

:^D
 
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Even though I only climb MRS roughly 20% of the time when I climb a tree, I am still obsessed with learning all about techniques, and how to use gear for, moving rope systems. I work very hard to stay up to date with every aspect of tree climbing. I do this mainly because I have a vicious tree climbing obsession, but also because I enjoy making videos about MRS for my YouTube channel in order to attract people who climb that way, and so that my channel is eclectic as possible (I want my channel to have a ton of variety).

I recently became very interested in pulleysavers, rather spontaneously, because I've noticed that there isn't a lot of content out there which covers these alternatives to a ring to ring friction saver. After only 15 minutes of online window shopping, it quickly became abundantly clear to me that buying a pulleysaver was going to be out of the question. They cost hundreds of dollars and there aren't a lot of options to choose from either.

So, in true Knotorious fashion, I decided right then and there that I would make my own pulleysaver, and I would use this opportunity to make a video all about how to make your own pulleysaver. Once completed, I decided I would then create an in depth video showing the two main ways to use a pulleysaver; as a low friction TIP in the canopy and as a spar anchor. I also decided I would demonstrate how to install one from the ground and how to retrieve one, wheter from in the canopy or from off of a spar.

Long story short, I accomplished ALL of these goals in 48 hours. The videos turned out amazing. I finished editing the demo video, but I still have to edit the video where I show how to make an adjustable pulleysaver; which I'll do once I finish this post.

The pulleysaver I built is made using a 12mm bull rope that began at 16 feet long. I tied a Scott's Locked bowline on one end of the rope (because bowlines tend to result in a loop that stays pretty round), then I used a 32" spliced 9mm Sterling RIT eye to eye to tie a six coil prusik, clipped a DMM Perfecto onto it, then attached my DMM Pinto pulley to it. For the retrievable component, I tied a six coil prusik using a loop of 6mm accessory cord, which was made by melting both end of a straight piece until they were goopy and then pushed the ends together, using pliers to compress everything into a tidy, round fusion. I then used a DMM XSRE with a screw gate and, in order to ensure that my throw ball would pass through my pinto, but get caught on the XSRE, I wrapped the entire perimeter of the XSRE with 1mm paracord.

All of the pulleysavers available for purchase online (as far as what I, personally, have seen for sale) have pulleys that are permanently connected to sewn loops for forming the six coil prusik for adjustability. This means that you can attach your rope midline.

I used an eye to eye because a) a tied loop using a double fisherman bend would result in a huge, bulky knot that could get stuck on something and b) it allows me to connect my pulley via a Perfecto carabiner, which means I can install my rope midline. My pulleysaver was not only super easy to install (it worked beautifully), but it was just as easy to uninstall using either a soft or hard retrieval.

What's great is that this pulley saver cost me a grand total of ZERO DOLLARS. Additionally, I can quickly take it apart and use any of its components for other applications and, should I ever need my pulleysaver again, I can easily reassemble it in under ten minutes.

Attached are some pictures of the pulleysaver I made! If you've never used a pulleysaver for a spar anchor before, than you're missing out big time. Not only is it much lower friction than a ring to ring, but it locks onto the tree in a choking configuration, versus the ring to ring which is in basket configuration and can often be a pain in the ass to keep from slipping down a spar; especially if it has smooth bark.

Also, I bought another DMM Perfecto, but this one has a removable captive bar, which is going to be perfect for permanently installing it onto my Rope Runner Pro! In the picture, I've placed a regularly sized carabiner (Petzl OK Triact) next to it for perspective.

Conclusion: You wouldn't catch me dead paying hundreds of dollars for something that I can make on my own. My two videos came out absolutely phenomenal and I'm extremely proud of my work.

PXL_20240508_231900774~2.jpg PXL_20240508_231138816~2.jpg PXL_20240508_231012218~3.jpg PXL_20240508_231151082~2.jpg PXL_20240508_231542522~2.jpg PXL_20240508_231027701.MP~2.jpg PXL_20240508_233436099~2.jpg
 
lxskllr said:
Looks cool. I'm having problems with brainlock understanding how it's set and retrieved. I guess I'll have to wait for your video :^)
Click to expand...
It has a really interesting method for installation and, in order to retrieve it, you must (at some point, before you descend to the ground and finish your climb) ascend to where the pulley saver is and clip that little accessory/retrievable carabiner onto the correct strand. If you don't do that, then you won't be able to retrieve it and you'll need to climb all the way back up to your TIP and clip the little 'biner on.

One downside of the installation from the ground is that it you need 4x the distance from the ground to your desired TIP (isolated limb) worth of rope. So depending upon how long your rope is, this could greatly limit how high you can set your pulley saver from the ground. However, you can easily just advance it while aloft.

My video will make everything quite clear to you and anyone else who is curious about these exotic, low friction devices. Where they truly shine is for use as spar anchors. Anyone who uses a ring to ring, who gives a pulley saver a try even one time, will almost certainly prefer it greatly and want one of their own.
 
I was window shopping for a prospective new rope to buy the next time I have enough money to spend on one, and I came across one that really piqued my interest. As someone who climbs SRS 80% of the time or more, and as someone who climbs with a mechanical device (Rope Runner Pro) 50% of the time (and a rope wrench for the other 50%), I only buy static kernmantle ropes which have a minimum of 32-strand construction. I only own one 24-strand rope, which I have only ever used as a lanyard (it's only 15' long), and the rest of my ropes are either 32-strand or 48-strand kernmantle.

I ventured into some obscure online rope vending websites, and visited a variety of different arborist supply stores that I had previously never heard of, and found this really cool looking, 32-strand kernmantle rope with a Nylon core that is currently available for presale purchase. It's made by Atlantic Braids and it's called the Endurance Aya, and it was designed specifically for SRS climbing.

Has anyone ever heard of Atlantic Braids? I'm hesitant to buy a rope from a manufacturer I've never even heard of, but it looks so awesome. It's a little over $1/foot.

www.rope.com

Endurance Climbing RopeAYA / Per Foot

Endurance Climbing Rope is a high strength 7/16" semi-static kernmantle climbing rope constructed with a 32 strand polyester jacket over a nylon core. The low-stretch construction of the endurance climbing line is designed to absorb some of the bounciness that is normally experienced with full...
www.rope.com www.rope.com


1715279986995.png

I also came across a really awesome 24-strand rope that I wouldn't mind buying with a spliced eye on one end and using strictly for MRS. This one is made by a well-known manufacturer, Yale Cordage, and it is called the Blue Tongue. This has to be one of the coolest looking rope patterns I've ever seen. It's hard to find vendors that sell this rope, and I believe the one linked below is located in the UK. The pricing is really fair for a quality rope that comes with a spliced eye on one end, but the shipping is costly, but not obscene.

Blue Tongue 11.7mm Climbing Rope

The Yale Blue Tongue 11.7mm Climbing Rope is a high-performance rope that is ideal for a variety of climbing applications. It is made from high-quality materials and is designed to provide superior strength, durability, and comfort. The rope is also lightweight and easy to handle, making it a...
www.gustharts.com www.gustharts.com

1715280336384.png

Anyways, I hope I come into some money sometime soon. I need a new rope, but I also need a new rope with a spliced eye on one end because all of my ropes right now have sewn eyes, and that makes using them with friction savers, pulley savers, and with MRS climbing systems like the Hitch Climber setup less than ideal and difficult.
 
The Endurance is cool looking. I know of AtlanticBraids, but haven't used their rope. I think they have a good reputation. They just aren't one of the big dogs in North American ropes. If I saw something from them I really liked, I wouldn't have a problem buying from them.
 
Knotorious said:
Even though I only climb MRS roughly 20% of the time when I climb a tree, I am still obsessed with learning all about techniques, and how to use gear for, moving rope systems. I work very hard to stay up to date with every aspect of tree climbing. I do this mainly because I have a vicious tree climbing obsession, but also because I enjoy making videos about MRS for my YouTube channel in order to attract people who climb that way, and so that my channel is eclectic as possible (I want my channel to have a ton of variety).

I recently became very interested in pulleysavers, rather spontaneously, because I've noticed that there isn't a lot of content out there which covers these alternatives to a ring to ring friction saver. After only 15 minutes of online window shopping, it quickly became abundantly clear to me that buying a pulleysaver was going to be out of the question. They cost hundreds of dollars and there aren't a lot of options to choose from either.

So, in true Knotorious fashion, I decided right then and there that I would make my own pulleysaver, and I would use this opportunity to make a video all about how to make your own pulleysaver. Once completed, I decided I would then create an in depth video showing the two main ways to use a pulleysaver; as a low friction TIP in the canopy and as a spar anchor. I also decided I would demonstrate how to install one from the ground and how to retrieve one, wheter from in the canopy or from off of a spar.

Long story short, I accomplished ALL of these goals in 48 hours. The videos turned out amazing. I finished editing the demo video, but I still have to edit the video where I show how to make an adjustable pulleysaver; which I'll do once I finish this post.

The pulleysaver I built is made using a 12mm bull rope that began at 16 feet long. I tied a Scott's Locked bowline on one end of the rope (because bowlines tend to result in a loop that stays pretty round), then I used a 32" spliced 9mm Sterling RIT eye to eye to tie a six coil prusik, clipped a DMM Perfecto onto it, then attached my DMM Pinto pulley to it. For the retrievable component, I tied a six coil prusik using a loop of 6mm accessory cord, which was made by melting both end of a straight piece until they were goopy and then pushed the ends together, using pliers to compress everything into a tidy, round fusion. I then used a DMM XSRE with a screw gate and, in order to ensure that my throw ball would pass through my pinto, but get caught on the XSRE, I wrapped the entire perimeter of the XSRE with 1mm paracord.

All of the pulleysavers available for purchase online (as far as what I, personally, have seen for sale) have pulleys that are permanently connected to sewn loops for forming the six coil prusik for adjustability. This means that you can attach your rope midline.

I used an eye to eye because a) a tied loop using a double fisherman bend would result in a huge, bulky knot that could get stuck on something and b) it allows me to connect my pulley via a Perfecto carabiner, which means I can install my rope midline. My pulleysaver was not only super easy to install (it worked beautifully), but it was just as easy to uninstall using either a soft or hard retrieval.

What's great is that this pulley saver cost me a grand total of ZERO DOLLARS. Additionally, I can quickly take it apart and use any of its components for other applications and, should I ever need my pulleysaver again, I can easily reassemble it in under ten minutes.

Attached are some pictures of the pulleysaver I made! If you've never used a pulleysaver for a spar anchor before, than you're missing out big time. Not only is it much lower friction than a ring to ring, but it locks onto the tree in a choking configuration, versus the ring to ring which is in basket configuration and can often be a pain in the ass to keep from slipping down a spar; especially if it has smooth bark.

Also, I bought another DMM Perfecto, but this one has a removable captive bar, which is going to be perfect for permanently installing it onto my Rope Runner Pro! In the picture, I've placed a regularly sized carabiner (Petzl OK Triact) next to it for perspective.

Conclusion: You wouldn't catch me dead paying hundreds of dollars for something that I can make on my own. My two videos came out absolutely phenomenal and I'm extremely proud of my work.

View attachment 138637View attachment 138638View attachment 138639View attachment 138640View attachment 138641View attachment 138642View attachment 138643
Click to expand...
that is not a very good setup, the eye is still to supple and therefore you will experience difficulties retrieving it. also the bowline will likely catch on stuff. the carabiner used to connect the pulley to the hitchcord is slightly frightening. a better setup would be a endless loop tied with two opposing double-fishermen (you need a pinto-spacer)
 
friedrich said:
that is not a very good setup, the eye is still to supple and therefore you will experience difficulties retrieving it. also the bowline will likely catch on stuff. the carabiner used to connect the pulley to the hitchcord is slightly frightening. a better setup would be a endless loop tied with two opposing double-fishermen (you need a pinto-spacer)
Click to expand...
This setup works exceptionally well. I repeatedly installed and uninstalled probably twenty times each direction, using just my rope, to verify that it would work smoothly, and it absolutely does. I plan on adding some paracord whipping to the middle of the loop in order to ensure that it stays as open as possible. Also, it requires almost no effort to install and retrieve this pulley saver every single time. I agree that the bowline's knot could get caught on something, but I'm willing to take that chance in order to avoid paying hundreds of dollars.

Why is the carabiner frightening? After installation, it hangs (or extends, depending upon orientation and application) below or beyond any and all obstacles, meaning there is virtually no opportunity for the carabiner's gate to get opened by something. I see professional climbers use carabiners right up against spars, in a choke formation, as a spar anchor (for mid-size to large spars) all of the time (look no further than August Hunicke's videos to see this occuring regularly), despite this application not being approved by any manufacturers; and that is easily a much more high risk way to make use of a carabiner, with a far greater chance of it spontaneously opening as the gate is being continuously pressed directly against the spar. Once my pulley saver has been installed, the carabiner extends out from the spar, or out from below a limb, by around 4-6".

By not using a tied loop using a double fisherman bend, I avoid having a massive, bulky knot that will get in the way and probably get stuck whether I place it on the outside of the coil, or on the lower, outside part of the prusik loop. By using a carabiner, my system can be quickly and easily disassembled, and so I don't have to dedicate a pulley to the system or untie a double fisherman bend that has been heavily loaded just so I can access my pulley for some other application. Finally, by not connecting the pulley to a prusik loop directly, I am able to attach my rope midline versus having to start at one end and pull my rope through until the middle sits over the pulley for installation from the ground. It also makes installation onto a spar easier as well. Lastly, triple action carabiners are extremely easy to visually verify that they are closed completely and properly from great distances.

This system works flawlessly thus far and I see absolutely zero reasons to discontinue the use of any aspect of my setup. I appreciate your healthy skepticism and concern, though.
 
Til I see the video, the only thing I can say is "It looks complicated". The main appeal to me of moving rope is the simplicity of the setup. Rope, a piece of hitchcord, a pulley, and I'm good to go. I may or may not use a foot ascender. I typically use it when I can hit a lowish tie in with a hand throw. Quick in, quick out. If I'm setting up a bunch of gear, I'm more inclined to use a static rope, and all my jingly jangly hardware. If I'm gonna go through the trouble of a complicated setup, I might as well make life easy and use all the helpers.
 
But then you are not a rec climber.
In it for the fun of it.
And for telling the work climbers how to do it.

With 2 billion knots🤪
 
Knotorious said:
This setup works exceptionally well. I repeatedly installed and uninstalled probably twenty times each direction, using just my rope, to verify that it would work smoothly, and it absolutely does. I plan on adding some paracord whipping to the middle of the loop in order to ensure that it stays as open as possible. Also, it requires almost no effort to install and retrieve this pulley saver every single time. I agree that the bowline's knot could get caught on something, but I'm willing to take that chance in order to avoid paying hundreds of dollars.

Why is the carabiner frightening? After installation, it hangs (or extends, depending upon orientation and application) below or beyond any and all obstacles, meaning there is virtually no opportunity for the carabiner's gate to get opened by something. I see professional climbers use carabiners right up against spars, in a choke formation, as a spar anchor (for mid-size to large spars) all of the time (look no further than August Hunicke's videos to see this occuring regularly), despite this application not being approved by any manufacturers; and that is easily a much more high risk way to make use of a carabiner, with a far greater chance of it spontaneously opening as the gate is being continuously pressed directly against the spar. Once my pulley saver has been installed, the carabiner extends out from the spar, or out from below a limb, by around 4-6".

By not using a tied loop using a double fisherman bend, I avoid having a massive, bulky knot that will get in the way and probably get stuck whether I place it on the outside of the coil, or on the lower, outside part of the prusik loop. By using a carabiner, my system can be quickly and easily disassembled, and so I don't have to dedicate a pulley to the system or untie a double fisherman bend that has been heavily loaded just so I can access my pulley for some other application. Finally, by not connecting the pulley to a prusik loop directly, I am able to attach my rope midline versus having to start at one end and pull my rope through until the middle sits over the pulley for installation from the ground. It also makes installation onto a spar easier as well. Lastly, triple action carabiners are extremely easy to visually verify that they are closed completely and properly from great distances.

This system works flawlessly thus far and I see absolutely zero reasons to discontinue the use of any aspect of my setup. I appreciate your healthy skepticism and concern, though.
Click to expand...
not in a real work scenario, it is very likely to open. and very hard to inspect from far away. and frightening that you wanna inspire other climbers to use this system after testing it 20 times!? i don‘t want to insult you or give you a hard time because you are „only“ a rec-climber but this is not a good idea and you seem to not understand the concept of the pulley-saver.

remotely installed with a carabiner in the mix???
 
friedrich said:
not in a real work scenario, it is very likely to open. and very hard to inspect from far away. and frightening that you wanna inspire other climbers to use this system after testing it 20 times!? i don‘t want to insult you or give you a hard time because you are „only“ a rec-climber but this is not a good idea and you seem to not understand the concept of the pulley-saver.

remotely installed with a carabiner in the mix???
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to inspire anyone to use my system. I merely shared it with the forum because I thought it was unique and interesting as far as gear is concerned (the topic of this thread). This is going to be a device that I, personally, will be using for recreational climbing. This is not a piece of equipment that I will be using in conditions with the same degree of hazardousness as doing tree work.

Look, all I'm saying to the forum is that I took the time to create a homemade pulley saver because a) I cannot afford an actual pulley saver, b) I wanted to make a video demonstrating how to use, install, and uninstall a pulley saver (where at no point do I encourage anyone to use my design), and c) I have been in need of a pulley saver for quite some time and I have a number of different uses/applications that I will now be able to use it for.

I fully appreciate your concern regarding the carabiner. Also, my 20x retrieval and 20x installation tests are merely the very beginning of what will be a lengthy period of ongoing testing. The second pulley saver I made has a tied loop formed with a double fisherman bend, with a Rock Exotica Omniblock directly connected to it. This pulley saver is 12 feet (the other is 16), before knots were tied into it (so each one is likely a bit shorter by around 2 feet), and is otherwise identical in design to the one shown in the photos. I am experimenting with different designs and -- allow me to reiterate -- testing is far from complete.

All I'm saying to you, and the forum, is that -- thus far -- both systems work perfectly and I, personally, feel safe climbing on both pulley savers. If people can use a carabiner in choke formation around a spar, and if people can use a carabiner with a sling to create a variety of different redirects, then it seems to me that using a carabiner in a pulley saver, strictly in ways which ensure that the carabiner is angled away from the limb or spar it is anchored to, is not as "terrifying" as you seem to think it is.

These are my personal pulley savers that I have built for the low cost of zero dollars. Do not make the mistake of interpreting my decision to share my design as me encouraging others to do exactly what I have done. Without any doubt in my mind, having a pulley saver which does not have a carabiner incorporated into the design is undeniably safer. However, I, personally, do not feel terrified by my design which does incorporate one, so long as it is used cautiously and considerately.

I'm a big boy. I have more than enough knowledge and experience to make decisions regarding the types and degrees of risk I'm willing to take on as a recreational climber. I view the carabiner, for my personal and specific applications, as relatively low risk.
 
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