Murphy's Step Cut

[mistahbenn]

De ja vu!

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Start the vid at 1:01 STEP TRIP CUTTIN'
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-Ml5aVtKh3Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's what Gord demonstated as the "Magic Cut" except his horizontal is a little deeper, and possibly the backcut a little closer, allowing the work to fall on its own, as the COG is undermined.

 

[Bixler]

Yeah Sean, Gord's got a nice square riggin' vid out, silky smooth work.

Murph, that's not me working in the vid. It's a fellow named Ian Flatters, just wanted to make sure you saw that one.

 

[Merle Nelson]

When I started at the company I was assigned to a crew as you would expect. The foreman Duane is a lifetime company guy and was a national safety/training guy for over 10 years. He has been teaching the step cut, or open faced snap cut as he calls it, for three decades. He is a huge advocate of it and as such we use it a lot.

Now I know Murphy has long been a proponent of his 'step cut', and I am not intending to split hairs over who thought up what, lets say everyone arrived at it independently. What I would like to know, is anyone else out there doing stuff like this? Who likes it, hates it, etc?

We use it primarily to set the hinge with a plunge and get the sawyer out of the drop zone for the pull. Unless there is a reason NOT to, on our crew we almost always use this method.

Here is a close up of our use today. Its a cucumber tree and was quite large (for our area) so I left a big hinge and used a tall snap (step). I also didnt go help pull it over. The tree was brushed out, there werent any hangers and we cleared the falling path with a polesaw from the top of the tree.

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As I said earlier in the thread I have never used this technique. There have been a lot of individual times when I would have liked to have been out of the danger zone further when all the action started or, been over controlling the pull. I’m glad to have this Step Cut in mind and available as an option for some instances in the future.

As this thread progressed it touched on practices for cutting leaning trees. I have done a bunch of that because of it’s efficiency for getting a tree on the ground. Always in the back of my mind I’m thinking how stupid risky it is, aren’t I supposed to be using dynamite or a tractor to do this etc... Didn’t I read that in some official book? I have seen one of Murphy’s videos on leaning or hung trees before and noted some changes to make to my practices which would greatly enhance the safety of this (in my opinion) greatly elevated risk procedure.

I come to this forum to learn and so I want to thank Nick for starting this thread and sharing about his experience with his foreman Duane and asking the question, ‘What do you think?’ I want to thank Murphy for his taking the time to make videos and share. And I want to thank every person who has put in their perspective on this topic so far.

It seems to me that personality issues can pretty easily get in the way on the forums at times. But what are we really doing here? If any one person that shares useful ideas for consideration ever starts sharing less or stops coming back then I know I have lost something of value personally.

To quantify I would project I might use the ‘step cut’ 6 or 12 times a year and one of those times might even be in the middle of a lawn if I wanted to get over and control the pull as well as the falling. And the changes to my ‘hung tree’ cuts which I anticipate using all the time might make that 30 to 50% safer owing to the added time it will give me to get away from the tree.

Work is looking better all the time, thanks everyone.

 

[Ax-Man]

I haven't tried this cut so I have to sit on the fence as to how it performs with no pro or con comment. I don't think I would ever really have a use for it but you never know. I have to agree with Al as it looks like a controlled barber chair type cut.

This has been an interesting thread even though it seems like we are trying to reinvent the wheel. Once a tree has been stripped of it's crown it doesn't take much to dump the spar. A regular notch or an open face will in most cases get the job done easily. Some times you don't even need to cut a notch. Now, if your falling a whole tree with the crown intact then you need more tools of the trade if the subject tree does not lend itself too good for the common type notches then many of these non standard notch, hinge and hybrid type cuts all have there place and you need to them if you want to get the job done safely

 

[Al Smith]

Well now just by the law of physics with that low cut and break over it will kick the butt end out ,can't happen any other way .

Now like with a bent over tree that gets smashed from another take down it will barber out but usually pinchs the saw .That low cut still bothers me about tossing the saw back at you weather you're off to the side or not .Might be a job for a pole saw on the final release .At least you're 10 or so feet away from it .Easier to buy another polesaw than to buy a new knee .

 

[murphy4trees]

Well now just by the law of physics with that low cut and break over it will kick the butt end out ,can't happen any other way .

Now like with a bent over tree that gets smashed from another take down it will barber out but usually pinchs the saw .That low cut still bothers me about tossing the saw back at you weather you're off to the side or not .Might be a job for a pole saw on the final release .At least you're 10 or so feet away from it .Easier to buy another polesaw than to buy a new knee .

Al,
The tree will not move until the pull line brakes the step, at which time neither the op nor the saw are anywhere near the cut...

 

[Al Smith]

That's the diff Murph .Many of us do not use pull lines .

You gotsta remember Murph you are pulling yard trees .How pray tell would you get a pull line in a tree in the middle of a 40 acre woods on the side of a hill .Helium ballon ?

 

[murphy4trees]

That's the diff Murph .Many of us do not use pull lines .

You gotsta remember Murph you are pulling yard trees .How pray tell would you get a pull line in a tree in the middle of a 40 acre woods on the side of a hill .Helium ballon ?

Once again its important to remember the many differences between logging and suburban tree care.. this is a pull line required technique.. so it doesn't apply for many...

 

[woodworkingboy]

That's the diff Murph .Many of us do not use pull lines .

You gotsta remember Murph you are pulling yard trees .How pray tell would you get a pull line in a tree in the middle of a 40 acre woods on the side of a hill .Helium ballon ?

Maasdam

 

[Al Smith]

Maasdam

I had to Google that and all I came up with is a cruise ship from Holland .Now granted a big old 100 thousand HP liner would pull over a tree but how would you get one in a back yard ?

 

[woodworkingboy]

Al, you make a plausible argument.

 

[Merle Nelson]

That's the diff Murph .Many of us do not use pull lines .

You gotsta remember Murph you are pulling yard trees .How pray tell would you get a pull line in a tree in the middle of a 40 acre woods on the side of a hill .Helium ballon ?

Actually Al’s comment reminds me of another time I would have liked to have had access to the Step Cut.

I used to do all the climbing and a bunch of the other ‘thinking work’ for a friend of mine that cleared large areas of property for vineyards. Obviously we just dropped trees any time we could, by the hundreds. But invariably there would be high value items back in and around somewhere - including county roads. I would set a 5/8 chocker on the tree as low as we thought would still give us the leverage we needed, a lot at only 10 to 30 feet, some up to 60 feet. Then hook that up to the skidders 30K lb. winch and its 3/4 bull line.

Faller would have the line tensioned up, install mostly conventional face cuts, have a little more tension added to observe control, put in the back cut and call for the pull while stepping away. That seemed fine enough to me but there were times when the trees would have as much as 30 to 35 degree back lean. (The faller needed to stay on the cut till the tree was ready to go over.)

After some testing and practice I think I might feel far more comfortable with the Step Cut for some of this. We used to have to leave so much holding wood at times that the skidder was just ripping a tree apart. With the SC I would anticipate being able to take holding wood down to reasonable levels as the step would be stabilizing the back side of the tree until the faller could get out of the area of danger. This would have prevented a lot of mechanically induced barber chairs with all their high risk dangers.

A few years ago I pulled some monster trees by putting two 3/4 in.rigging ropes 70 feet up in them and hooking up to a couple of loaders. Now, having used a big shot for the last couple of years, I would just instal those lines from the ground with a base tie. (No step cut - that’s just how I would set a pull line on difficult trees in the woods.)

 

[Ax-Man]

I bet Al has a set of spurs around somewhere, all he has to do is clean the rust off of them.

 

[Tucker943]

Skidder and cable? Don't mind if I do.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Collect the check!

 

[Al Smith]

I bet Al has a set of spurs around somewhere, all he has to do is clean the rust off of them.

Actually I do but those old Bashlins haven't been used in over 20 years .The pads are shot .

Maybe 4-5 years ago I hooked a 25 foot spar just to see if I could still do it .Nor bad I was only stiff and sore about a day over that deal .

 

[stig]

Merle, what would prevent you from simply sticking a couple of wedges in a tree with that much backlean, to hold the kerf open, while you completed the cut.
Then after setting whatever hinge thickness you deemed necessary, step out of the danger zone and signal the skidder driver to pull.

That is how I do it.

Also, if I know something is going to barberchair while I'm near, I wrap a logging chain around it. I keep a short, selflocking one in the truck during logging season for that purpose.

 

[Al Smith]

So after all this is this patented Murf cut for a back leaner then? If it's just for pull type thing a simple old back cut and fall would work just as well I'd think .Leaves a neater looking stump too if that matters .Of course if you mow them off at the ground I don't suppose it makes much difference .

Ha veneer loggers worry about leaving high stumps .Hacks like me it's just firewood .Kind of a bitch to split is all .

 

[flushcut]

Skidder and cable? Don't mind if I do.

I would love to play with a skidder!

 

[cory]

Tree Farmer, a blast from the past, Chris!

 

[Tucker943]

Ya, old junky skidder, but it was there in a pinch.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Ya, old junky skidder, but it was there in a pinch.

I like the pictures, and the ladder too. You can get a lot of work done quick that way. We had one half of a light weight 20 ft. ext. ladder and we would just throw it out of our way and to the next tree.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Merle, what would prevent you from simply sticking a couple of wedges in a tree with that much backlean, to hold the kerf open, while you completed the cut.
Then after setting whatever hinge thickness you deemed necessary, step out of the danger zone and signal the skidder driver to pull.

That is how I do it.

Also, if I know something is going to barberchair while I'm near, I wrap a logging chain around it. I keep a short, selflocking one in the truck during logging season for that purpose.

Stig, First of all I would say that falling cuts are one of my weaker areas and I would welcome any thoughts or methods that give me more reliable, predictable results. I have never been formally trained in falling.

Deleted the rest of my post as I am not happy with it. Give me a day or two.

I like the idea of preventing a barber chair with chain today. What does the self-locking feature look like? At that time it would have been wise also to make for a more controllable, fallible tree.

 

[Tucker943]

I use a ladder to get started into fat trees.