Murphy's Step Cut

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This shows a tight shot of the cut, made from the hooks, and allowed me to exit tree before pulling.. there was a slight possibility that the dead wood on the cherry top would catch a limb on the neighboring oak and get thrown back at me.
 
Murph, I'm interpreting that one cut in the earlier #72 post vid as your "jump cut", where the small face closes and the tree jumps from that point? Having just wondered before what you were referring to?
 
This has been an interesting read. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the risks of a 'root pull' - a significant possibility with a low back strap on a heavy leaner. :?

Be careful of root pull, there I said it. LOL
 
Yes, root pull, watch out...

Murphy, Tom just put this vid out. More of the vert-snap cut but there's some root pullin' in there... careful

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What the hell? Tom Fool? Anyone can get creative if they don't mind dangerous, or in the very least messy as all get up. It must be a cutting technique for paraplegics wanting to get out of there, or ones that have suffered enough.
 
What the hell? Tom Fool? Anyone can get creative if they don't mind dangerous, or in the very least messy as all get up. It must be a cutting technique for paraplegics wanting to get out of there, or ones that have suffered enough.
Why the hostility, ugliness, and name calling... can't we consider differing opinions with curiosity and interest, or at least an open mind.. Have you tried the cut Jay? Blinky was on that cut til he tried it.. only to find out.. Hey, it works pretty well...
 
This has been an interesting read. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the risks of a 'root pull' - a significant possibility with a low back strap on a heavy leaner. :?

From Al's post above it: " Well okay ,with a bore and back strap you are making the release cut outward .It happens fast but you are clear of the tree before it trips ."

On heavy leaners you ALWAYS want to make the release cut from the outside in, to prevent rootpull and the opposite, when the backsttap tears a whole vertical slab out of the tree.

Rootpull will scare the crap out of you and hurt you if you are in the wrong place, tearing a good log apart will only hurt your reputation and scare the crap out of you.



I see no use whatsoever for the "step cut" when falling trees on the ground, it just adds another completely unnecessary factor to the equation.
 
Why the hostility, ugliness, and name calling... can't we consider differing opinions with curiosity and interest, or at least an open mind.. Have you tried the cut Jay? Blinky was on that cut til he tried it.. only to find out.. Hey, it works pretty well...

I apologize, if my post is interpreted as being ugly. Perhaps it asks too much to think that I have enough posts up on the board to assume that my way of sometimes communicating will be regarded in the vein of being satirical, than appearing to seem critical to the extent of unpleasantness. I really do value getting along. To me, the video is much a shocking thing. I guess I could have said, "That's nice if someone likes that". No, I have not tried the method. Dan, you put yourself out there with some rather controversial things, perhaps you should expect strongly worded responses, without possibly being offended. Regarding Tom, third party praise through making videos is not something that we often see here, so I needed to make some adjustments. Like I said, sorry if what I wrote you consider over the top, and appreciate you wanting to straighten it out. :)
 
From Al's post above it: " Well okay ,with a bore and back strap you are making the release cut outward .It happens fast but you are clear of the tree before it trips ."

On heavy leaners you ALWAYS want to make the release cut from the outside in, to prevent rootpull and the opposite, when the backsttap tears a whole vertical slab out of the tree.
You're confusing me here Stigster .If the thing stood up all by itstelf with a back lean before you wittled on it why would it tear out the roots no matter how you cut it .

I'm not questioning your knowledge because you've tripped thousands compaired to my hundreds .It's just most people who write about felling methods suggest in to out on a plunge/back release .

I haven't done many nor were they over 18". However they were all sitting up on about an inch of hinge wood and when the back strap was cut gravity took over in a hurry .

Now I've bored them where you come in on both sides then cut the strip in the center,maybe 2" wide .They weren't heavy leaners though .
 
I don't trip boe cut trees from the inside out. I cut out all that needs cut, pull my saw out, and reach out and nip the holding strap with the least bit of the bar tip.
 
Why the hostility, ugliness, and name calling... can't we consider differing opinions with curiosity and interest, or at least an open mind.. Have you tried the cut Jay? Blinky was on that cut til he tried it.. only to find out.. Hey, it works pretty well...
will someone get this guy a hug. I'm just kidding, I'm sure these cuts have their uses. not for me however. I cleared an acre of woods today filled with leaners and hangers and whatnot, all with simple notching. but I will make it a point to try some of these new fangled techniques so I can have a more educated opinion.
 
I was thinking about this divergence of opinion about methods. Dan shows he can handle a large saw on spikes and seems to have a lot of confidence about his approaches, I don't doubt that there is a lot of experience in the field behind it all. Burnham, if I might take the liberty of suggesting him as an example of someone here among others that has tremendous lengthy experience in the field as both a faller and teacher, yet he appears at loggerheads with Dan about certain practices, as do other people that speak up about it, myself included about one particular practice recently shown. One doesn't have to always try something to get at the point of what is being suggested, I don't see first hand experience as always needing to be a criteria.for objectivity. Obviously there are different backgrounds and individual slants on things, but I sense that there is something more fundamental going on behind the disagreements.

Falling trees is inherently dangerous work. I think that you probably find in any such hazardous occupations, that over the years people involved with the work have developed certain generalizations about it, both based on what they were taught and what they learned from their own experiences. Certain things aren't advised due to the risk factors, again, generalizations for the good of all. I believe that most would agree that it is a good thing in the vast majority of cases. That doesn't say that odd variations of widely accepted practices broadening out to completely eccentric methods won't work, but they may not fall within the range of what is considered by the majority of people to be standardized practices. Take a fellow like the very respected late Mr. Dent, I get the impression that in his mind there was not much in terms of gray areas when it came to methods. I expect that as an instructor, safety was the major priority concern, and little thought went into having to hedge his bets regarding his policies. Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong, but weren't things pretty cut and dry with him? Learning under the influence of a teacher like that can be very powerful in the way that you come to your own conclusions about things. Tradition is a very strong influence in most manual trades. It's one reason why people can make a living and do excellent work within a relatively safe haven, through different generations without each person having to be a genius or reason it all out from the beginning. If you tell someone that may have learned from Dent to "lighten up', regardless of whether he is willing or able to follow such succinct advise, then in essence you are also telling his teacher to do the same thing.

I don't doubt that Murph also wishes to be safety conscious, but I don't think I am being untrue in saying that he likes to take credit for developing what he sees as original methods, and if they sufficiently work to his manner of thinking, the fact that they may be out of bounds in terms of not being within the certain standardizations that have come down the pike, is relatively irrelevant, and the results speak louder than the unorthodoxness. Personally, I think originality is great if a person has been doing something long enough to wisely get creative and new, but it doesn't seem so simple when the aspect of potential hazards is also a factor. You could well be butting heads with the focus of traditions in place for some very solid reasons, those that a lot of people take very seriously, such that it has become common sense with them. It's a beautiful thing, trusting what has come before, it often makes for a straighter line between points. If you want to do your own thing and accept for yourself that you will be ok with it, possibly disregarding trained advice, then go for it. Is it ok to suggest these unique methods, especially some that may only have narrow application and at the same time violate certain established rules or traditions, like avoiding barberchair with it's less controlled outcome, and putting out training about them to an open public as a goal, including potential novices albeit with cautionary included, I think it is an entirely different matter, and one need be very careful about doing that. I'd go so far as to say that in some cases it can border on irresponsibility.

My late night 2 ....
 
Jay,

That is a very coherent and well thought out analysis of some of the pertinent dynamics going on with the Murphy yah-yah back and forth.

I have always been glad to have Murphy's input to see how he is doing things and then to get feedback from others that analyze it. Sometimes folks may let personality interfere with their delivery of an objective discussion but some of that is just human nature.

You covered a lot of good bases..thanks for laying out your thoughts. Your analysis covers a broad spectrum of disciplines that respect (and often require) craftsmanship, creativity, innovation, testing, analysis, etc....woodworking, treework, martial systems, mechanics, etc.....

I concur with your analysis.
 
Wow Jay,
That was great articulation & reasoning... As with all things there is a balance.. trust the tradition to get you safely through the day, but don't get stuck in rut of orthodoxy and to the exclusion of being open to new ideas.. If you talk to Shigo's old friends and associates, they'll tell you about the abuse he put up with when he first introduced his concepts, he was nearly thrown out of Germany.. It was brutal.. Evidence I think for a great reluctance to accept new ideas and methods in this biz.. Its also interesting to see the way climbing techniques and equipment has been such a hotbed of change and innovation, while other ideas are hard to change..

One of the problems with such orthodoxy is that people never question the methods to the point of not even understanding the "why".. Notches, backcuts & hinges are the best example.. the VAST majority just cut by the rules without the faintest idea of the why.. Once you really understand the why, it opens up a whole new world of tailoring each cut the specific situation.. Once that has been completely mastered then it can be transcended.. There is a lot more on my mind, but I gotta big day to get to...

I do give a lot of consideration to the audience when thinking of if and how to show unorthodox techniques. Its dangerous work, people can get killed either way.. So far the feedback has been positive.. and I use a "new" technique for years until I really understand it, before showing it.. I think this is the one you're refering to.

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Notice the widow maker that falls just after the release on this one.. I was 20' away when it fell..

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Its also important to define our terms..
intentionally leaving a high strap to allow it to rip, is not a barberchair.. BBC refers to the motion of a tree lifting up and back... Even people like Tom Dunlap called this cut a BBC, a clear sign to me that there is a lot of misunderstanding on the issue, and that many are very stuck in the ignorance and orthodoxy... any split trunk = BBC = dangerous ... when in fact this method can save lives... I wish I could show you the other links I AM thinking of...

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These guys are highway workers... seems like they managed pretty well on this big nasty tree... sent me a little thank you too!

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