Murphy's Step Cut

[bonner1040]

It was a hand pull, I dont think it hurt the rope. Like I said before I am no preaching it or its effectiveness. I just wanted to see what kind of response it got coming from someone other than Murphy.

 

[woodworkingboy]

I can't see why you guys are so adamant about that method in general being a hard pull to get the tree over. Maybe it was in the video how it was done, but I can think of a number of different ways to lessen the remaining wood in the step there to make the tree go over easy enough and still remain stable while you vacate the area. With species variation, wood breaks along the grain generally quite easily, and more wood to have to get started to split makes for harder. Remove enough of what remains and you could just about push the tree over. I mean other cuts get tailored, why not that one as well.

 

[bonner1040]

It wasnt a 'hard' pull. One guy did it by hand. I just left to big a step, thats all.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I was thinking the same thing... I didn't see a 'hard pull...'

 

[Bixler]

God Bonner... stop preaching already! heheheh - -Very neat little video there, and great job on bringing up this topic.

I'm with Murphy on this one, all the way. I try and 'step cut' as often as possible, within reason. Wedges, a couple pull ropes, anything to bring the tree over.

 

[squisher]

I just watched the vid again if that was one guy pulling without mechanical advantage why was he pulling soooo slowly? I stick to my earlier post if that was an easy pull by one guy why bother with the step?

 

[bonner1040]

I thnk it was cause the step held so long and made it hard. We definitely didnt need to use it on this, but I wanted to get the footage.

 

[squisher]

Burnham,

His thinking is that the step holds it all together, while you vacate the area. You are right, it was a LOT of pull for a simple tree, but I left a big step and a big hinge on purpose. I am not preaching it, quite the contrary actually, a lot of times I find it unnecessary but there have been times where I appreciate the value of it.

So are there instances that you prefer it on a pull tree over a normal backcut where you can put in wedges? This tree it seems you would agree it was unnecessary. Do you employ it with wedges?

 

[Bixler]

Yes employ it with multiple wedges, and multiple step cuts

 

[squisher]

For real? How so?

Doesn't the strap fight the wedges?

 

[treesmith]

I used a "reverse" stumpshot cut a few weeks ago while helping Carl. He was going to push a back-leaner over with the excavator while I cut it. To prevent the (likely) possibility of it jumping off the stump while he was pushing, I made the backcut several inches BELOW the notch, so there would be something to resist at the stump as the tree went over. Worked like a charm. I watched as the tree went over, glancing up at it twice as I backed up a couple of steps....just in time for a dislodged hanger from an adjacent tree to spear me on top of the left shoulder, nearly knocking me to my knees. Without going into great detail, suffice it to say that the past 3 months have been lively!

 

[bonner1040]

Generally speaking I am a 'cut it from the back throw in a wedge' guy.

We dont use wedges with the step cut/open faced snap cut.

Duane would tell me that the step acts like a wedge holding the tree up against lean/favor until the pull takes it over. We have used it successfully on dozens of trees over the last year since I started working. Back leaners, side leaners, tall, thin, fat, short, everything. Being a safety guy, his thinking is use a step cut and a come-a-long, even on trees most of us would hand pull without a second thought.

I have been lucky enough to have two mentors in treework (other than all you guys). My first mentor was a fast and dirty, slice cut, bomb it count on your skill kind of guy. Duane is the opposite, he is a cautious, safety first-second-and third worker. I try and find balance in everything.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Bah... Humbug.....

 

[squisher]

That's totally different than the step cut though right? With those using this stepcut the actual bored backcut isn't lower than your hinge is it?

 

[cory]

My first mentor was a fast and dirty, slice cut, bomb it count on your skill kind of guy. Duane is the opposite, he is a cautious, safety first-second-and third worker. I try and find balance in everything.

Good stuff, Nick.

 

[squisher]

I can appreciate that. I try to keep an open mind. I guess I'm a cut it and get a wedge in it kind of guy. As soon as one fits especially on a pull tree. If I was thinking that that strap was holding the tree up against its favor I'm thinking I'd want a stronger pull or rigging or both before I'd count on that. Seems to me like its just adding resistance to being pulled over. Wedges, and when I use the plural I mean multiple, most definitely not only stop a tree from setting back but when used with a pull seem most effective to me.

What I was getting at is when actually pulling hard I sure wouldn't want to be adding any resistance to it with a strap big or
small.

 

[murphy4trees]

I do not see any advantage... matter of fact it increased the effot neeed to pull it... unless I missed something...

all depends on what your needs are ... that can be an advantage in some situations and a disadvantage in others... The thought of pulling trees by hand with or w/o MA is about as appealing to me as going back to the tautline hitch... so pulling power isn't an issue in my world... watching Nicks vid was a little painful, but that's just the nature of video... we want to see action and see it now.. that's not the way it goes in the field though... as long as the tree goes where its supposed to, a few extra seconds is nothing.. (this ain't logging)

 

[Merle Nelson]

Remember that scene in Apocalypse now where everything is blowing up all around and Robert Duvall is on a knee having a thoughtful moment saying, “Yeah someday this wars gonna end.” I’ve always tried to walk away from trees real calm and cool like that while the earth’s shaking and stuff is crashing and a cloud of dust envelopes all around.
(Well that’s what I look like in my minds eye anyway.)

I’ve been standing at the base of a tree even if it was in danger of Barber Chairing and I did a plunge cut and out the back to release it. Then if no one was looking I might run. (For all the good it wood do.)

So with regard to the spirit of the original post question, I like this cut. I have never used
it. Now on some dangerous trees I have another option. I can think of trees that were up against fence or cabin or on a hillside or near some other poor footing or predicament where it just would have been more intelligent for me not to have been there when it released. I’ll be safer for knowing this and using it at times.

 

[woodworkingboy]

A straight grained species like Black Acacia or any other wood that splits easily, I think supports that technique. Something like elm or Zelkova, maybe Sycamore, where the grain 'knits' together and the path of least resistance where the wood wants to split may not be along the grain, it seems to me that there is a good chance that the hinge is going to get compromised, plus tougher to pull over. Maybe call it an advanced technique best used by people that understand their species? It occurs that quite possibly sticking the nose of the bar in a ways where you want to get the split started, may make for an easier sequence of events. Wood gets stressed out and it seeks a weak point where the break most easily gets started. For example, an existing slight end check is going to generally widen and lengthen before another check starts to happen elsewhere when there is shrinkage starting.

 

[murphy4trees]

Its all adjustable, depending on size and species.. & when you get into the trunk flare, it gets really nasty to spit the step... pre-cutting the step may be required as Jay suggests.

I don't use it as much as I used to.. for years I used it on every tree I could, just to get a feel for all the variables. I originally started using the cut to make the work a little easier. Chips were $15-20/load, but if there was wood in the load, he charged $65, so we'd end up ripping the flush cut (from the stump) and chipping it, which sucked... Most of the time we grind the stump, and sometimes have to remove the grindings, so I want the flush cut ALAP.... on bigger stuff with wide flares, its a harder to cut a low notch, and on anything risky, I don't want my hinge fibers down in the trunk flare.. so the step was originally used to keep the hinge above the trunk flare, while leaving only half a round of the flush cut to handle/chip. Once it was clear just how much holding power the step has, the wheels started turning and I realized there are a lot of other potential advantages. That's when I started experimenting.. every chance I got for years... In all that time, (many hundreds of cuts) I've never seen the step effect the performance of the hinge..

Getting a low flush cut stump is outside a logger world, but is helpful in the suburbs..

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r17mKsfM-jQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here's the original vid from the siberian elm removal... is that thread archived on the old site??

 

[MasterBlaster]

There is no archived site, only this site.

are all those old threads gone?

Yes.

 

[murphy4trees]

are all those old threads gone?

 

[stig]

I use the step cut when I do a folding tree.
I like knowing the top won't blow over while I vacate the tree.

Since I get to fold a tree maybe once every 3 years, it follows that I don't have much use for the cut.

 

[rangerdanger]

I will only use a bore/release cut on heavy leaners like the rest of us.

Same here. Perfect example from yesterday, heavy head leaning locust

 

[Tucker943]

Why a step cut on a leaning tree? Just bore cut the thing. I don't see what was gained by adding another dynamic to an already committed tree.