Why SRT?

[Bounce]

So why not train new climbers this method to enter the tree, get them exposed to SRT FIRST? You show them footlock and other methods, why not this.

Because the DRT is what you NEED in the tree 90% (or more) of the time. It's tried, it's true, it's effective, and WORKS!
SRT, as I was told when I first started even thinking about it, is gear heavy and expensive.

Ditto. However I'd also add that the DRT allows the climber to go up and back down without having to switch out ascenders for descender, which can be a little nerve-wracking when you're a newbie and at the highest part of your climb. SRT is the most complex method I've ever seen because it requires the most gear. You don't start out new guys with the most complex technique out there.

 

[hmm]

BUT there are tool/gear that can be used for ascent and decent, the unicender is one - there is another thread on that - THe gear needed, is light, a crill/chest ascender is not heavy, webbing to hold that in place. I will agree that it is GEAR intense to a point. Hand Ascenders, they are becoming a normal part of a persons/Climbers gear bag.

Like driving a manual transmission and an Automatic transmission vehilce, it is GOOD to know how to do that.

ONE more thing

MY thought - all climbers should know how to do a switch or re-tie-in, that is similar to a change from SRT going to Ddrt.

now i will return to my side the tree. . . . .

 

[wiley_p]

Why SRT?

Well if you want a job on any crew I run in the West, you had better be able to single rope, or be a champion class footlocker. The guys I have worked with who are the latter, they single rope too. Its a way easier form of canopy entry, it provides an access or lowering line for rescue, no need to isolate a crotch, etc, etc.

I get calls from prospective climbers, and after hearing how they are the BEST, just ask them. After they tell me that they are great at spurless climbing. Which to me means in a given region, you can enter a canopy safely, quickly, and move with relative fluidity in said structure. i then ask if they do SRT, the answer is 97% no. Then I ask how they get into a Doug fir with the fist live branch at 70'.


Answer, all the sudden they aren't great spurless climbers anymore.

It's not the final answer, but certainly a fundamental skill every journeyman climber should posess.

 

[sotc]

ummm body thrust haha

 

[Banned by Squirrels]

This; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_climbing was briefly interesting to read. And on topic.

 

[hmm]

that is a great read, I wonder who wrote that?

I do remember some one saying
"it is another tool in the bag"

 

[sawinredneck]

Very good read indeed! Thank you, that actually answered a lot of my questions, mainly how you tied off at the top.
I wonder, if after reaching the top, you tied off a small line on the eye and dropped it you could decend then pull the eye back down to you?
Just thinking al little outside the box.

 

[Bounce]

I do that sometimes when my line isn't quite long enough to have both ends reach the ground. I use my throwline tied to the eye of the running bowline to pull the rope out of the tree once I'm down. However, the throwline dangling next to me as I descend inevitably gets tangled in my gear and/or the tree, forcing me to stop and swear at it. Otherwise, it's much better to just drape the line over the crotch and descend down both legs with a figure 8. That way there aren't any knots to untie before pulling it out of the tree.

 

[hmm]

here is SRT with frog walker system - borrowed from tb
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2393525/7461460

that is a quick and easy way to enter the tree

 

[Hollywood]

I removed a few dead pines (strobus and resinosa) for my old man yesterday. This strobus was super dead so I set a line in a neighboring tree, SRT style anchored at the base. I'm tied in with a Petzl i'D. Set up a quick RADS with a Ropeman and krab. This way I could really tension the line to keep my weight off the dead tree. Spiked my way up and pieced it down over the cabin and other trees. I use SRT like this all the time.

Oh, the blue rope is a lowering line we used to rig the top out.

 

[Bodean]

I dorked around in my backyard chinese elm with srt today, I liked it.

I would use it If I had a long ascent and that's about it.

I would go up and come down on a muenter, cause I couldn't find my eight.

 

[will]

SRT is the best way to get into a big tree. Every trick you know makes you a better climber/rescuer.The deeper your understanding the safer and faster you can be.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Until you've climbed with a Unicender you'll never experience how well SRT can work.

Oh, I know...I've heard all of the naysayers...too expensive...too much gadgetry... None of that make sense unless you give up cell phones, anything with a computer or chip in it including fuel injection, airplane travel...on and on...we already have technology around us and we like it...or you wouldn't be reading this. Does anyone want to go back to DOS and BBS? Too much gadgetry...pshaw....

If SRT doesn't make sense don't just toss it out off hand until you've learned more about it. After showing lots of people how to SRT either using RADS or Tree Frog they can all see a place for SRT in trees. These folks range from rec climbers to never climbed to rope rescue to experienced tree climbers. I' ve got nothing to gain by promoting SRT other than knowing that the sooner people convert, at least for ascent, the less wear and tear they'll have on their bodies. That conclusion comes from showing physio therapists both trad and SRT rope climbing. they all cringe when they see trad climbing and know that their future is secure because there will always be people wearing themselves out sooner than necessary.

Takes too much time? Not in the long run. Years later when your joints are sore and you need to recuperate all of your time savings will be spent and you'll be in deficit.

Oh, well...

 

[MasterBlaster]

The dickins you say.

 

[stig]

I do some seed harvesting every year. For that kind of work, where you are in and out of the treetops all day long, SRT simply can't be beat.
Set the line in the canopy with the bigshot, ascend and switch to lanyard, get the seeds( usually we just cut some branches off and pluck the seed off on the ground) switch to figure 8 and rappel down. On to the next tree.
I don't see how any other method could be faster.

 

[Blinky]

Until you've climbed with a Unicender you'll never experience how well SRT can work.

Oh, I know...I've heard all of the naysayers...too expensive...too much gadgetry... [...]

Tom,
It's not about disliking technology, for me anyway... hell, I like technology. It's about having extra stuff to deal with on the site and in the tree. Some guys like their harness to jangle with gear, and that's cool by me... but I like having the least possible amount of stuff on me when I'm climbing. I've tried SRT in a few different configurations... I really wanted to like it.

You give me a chance to try out the unicender I'm definitely gonna try it, but with what I have available to me now, I prefer DdRT.

I'm not an SRT naysayer, I just don't find it useful for myself at this point except for long or repeated ascents. Give me an SRT solution that makes me as happy in a tree as DdRT and I'll be a convert.

 

[gf beranek]

Everything has its place. SRT being one of them. Though, at present, I really can not see how it would be a practical replacement for double rope techniques in our regular work.

I know some people out there have been trying and using SRT in work environments. What's the gain?

 

[No_Bivy]

Until you've climbed with a Unicender you'll never experience how well SRT can work.

Oh, I know...I've heard all of the naysayers...too expensive...too much gadgetry... None of that make sense unless you give up cell phones, anything with a computer or chip in it including fuel injection, airplane travel...on and on...we already have technology around us and we like it...or you wouldn't be reading this. Does anyone want to go back to DOS and BBS? Too much gadgetry...pshaw....

If SRT doesn't make sense don't just toss it out off hand until you've learned more about it. After showing lots of people how to SRT either using RADS or Tree Frog they can all see a place for SRT in trees. These folks range from rec climbers to never climbed to rope rescue to experienced tree climbers. I' ve got nothing to gain by promoting SRT other than knowing that the sooner people convert, at least for ascent, the less wear and tear they'll have on their bodies. That conclusion comes from showing physio therapists both trad and SRT rope climbing. they all cringe when they see trad climbing and know that their future is secure because there will always be people wearing themselves out sooner than necessary.

Takes too much time? Not in the long run. Years later when your joints are sore and you need to recuperate all of your time savings will be spent and you'll be in deficit.

Oh, well...

.....please. Climbing is generally HARD.....therefore your joints will suffer. You offered me a demo of the UNI...no go.yet to see it. I think SRT has it's place. I have jugged miles of single lines....miles. In a tree, for work, the friction hitch is supreme. Where are all these production SRT climbers....I have never met a one


need a pair of crampons for climbing ice covered trees?

 

[Frans]

Where are all these production SRT climbers....I have never met a one

Tom promotes 'SRT' continually, but he is unclear about what srt is to be used for in climbing; Just simply ascending up the rope, or moving throughout the canopy to prune or remove it.
At first, Tom promoted various methods in ascending a single line to get into the canopy but,
over time, Tom has appeared to believe more and more in the Uni-cender and seems to use it for working the canopy as well as ascending.

Personally, I don't believe one single system can or should be depended on for all types of tree climbing.
Sometimes it is better to just throw a line in and get to work, other times setting up a system is more efficient.

I've seen alot of climbers trying and trying to hit that perfect limb and taking way too much time to do it.
When simply getting a rope in the tree and getting the job started is more efficient.

I think if you depend on only one climbing system it can make you pretty damm inefficient as a worker.

Our industry is a trade. Starting and finishing jobs is what our industry is based on. So for me anyway, I must pick the most efficient system to get the job done.

 

[sotc]

hes giving a class in sept on srt, maybe we can ask him

 

[Frans]

Working the canopy using a single line requires that you pick the perfect spot to set your rope. That can take time.

Also, working the canopy using srt, if you want to change your 'tie-in' (not correct term with srt), it can be a hassle. Another point about using a single line thrown over a branch and then having one end tied at the base of the tree is that the forces are doubled on the branch. And...having that end tied to the base is an important safety factor. Should something happen to that tie in at the base, well, that would not be good.

I think SRT can be a good way to work... sometimes. But by no means is it the 'perfect way'. Like any tool in my arsenal of climbing tricks, it is just that, another tool to be used in it's place.

I have used the Uni-cender, and I have used various methods for working the canopy and ascending the rope using SRT. One point I noticed is that even tho I am dragging around one end of the line while moving through the canopy, it seemed like it was harder to pull around that end, and also to make sure that the path of my rope up to the branch was kept clear. Which meant that sometimes my rope was off at an angle, so if I did fall, I would fall further than if my tie-in was more directly over me.

 

[sawinredneck]

Seeing some of the pictures rigging up for SRT, it looks like a real PITA!! Plus all of the additional gear you need, to get up, then change it all to come back down? Lots of extra weight, and I am already carrying around too much of that!
Then in the canopy if you move to the other side of the tree, you have to hastle with the rope, or have someone belay you, if they can get around the branches?
And I am feeling stupid, but I stil don't understand the reasoning for having to tie off the bottom of the rope?
DRT is quick dirty and fairly cheap.
It seems there are more questions than answers, as well as all the neato things to buy, for SRT. I think I could buy a few more 'biners, a couple of slings and another 200t for about the same as it cost me to get rigged for SRT!

 

[NeTree]

SRT has very limited use, in my experience.

Used it today on this tree. Ran a running bowline up, quick ascend to blow off a couple lower limbs, then dropped the rest from the ground. About 10 minutes work.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

You give me a chance to try out the unicender I'm definitely gonna try it, but with what I have available to me now, I prefer DdRT.

If you meet up with him, he will surely give you a chance to give it a shot Tom is a great guy and will not miss an opportunity to teach and share knowledge.

I'm not sure about SRT for working in a tree, but for ascention, it can't be beat. You'd have to be a GREAT footlocker to beat even a novice with a frogwalker system.......

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'd like to master SRT for ascending some of the taller trees, for sure. Makes sense to me.

But working? I don't think so - not for me.