CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Love this gal.
Liv Taylor Dodge.
Looks like she had fun on this one...
Liv Taylor Dodge.
Looks like she had fun on this one...
Welders? Any welders on this site?
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Is there not a lot of robotic welding going on in shipbuilding?
lumberjack
Young man on the go
Made a jib for the new excavator using a plasma table and welder 😂
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Looks useful!
I bet that works pretty well!
I'm sure there is, likely track units so you have guys running them to make sure they're going good, and most of those are likely sub arc units. But there's a ton of hand welding too, just pretty much the nature of big things. There's a big enough tolerance where robots don't do as well, and each ship is unique because it depends on how it all fits. Even with the robots you still need a ton of hand welders, and the guys running the robots have to know what they're doing.
Even before i got in the fitters, on my first welding job building rops for combines i was doing critical welds instead of the robots, and was trusted to do them when the robot was down, which was often. I worked what they called "the buck" and it was where all the different pieces came together, very physical job with lifting and setting 70 pounds or so, climbing, and kneeling on steel and over clamps and fixtures all day. We did the bottom critical welds and put all the trim pieces on too at a different table, so we were the bottleneck of the line, and were pretty much always buried in work and the production times were pretty harsh. I learned it well, and pretty soon i was the fastest around by a country mile, and so the entire crew had it good and weren't bothered at all because we were better than first shift. Production was 12 for 3 guys and i would knock out 6 a night by myself since they didn't have enough guys, so they wisely let us do our thing. They even had me wreck them out for ones that were too messed up to fix, or repair welds that were out of spec. On overtime i would babysit a robot but had problems staying awake after the intense first 8 hours (2nd and 3rd shift working 5 16s), so i asked to do hand welding so they had me do massive diesel tanks.
At cat i was the last of the super heavy dualshield hand welds, they were transitioning to a robot. It didn't do too hot, so i ended up in salvage arc gouging the bad welds out and doing them manually. I also would have to get taps out that had broken off in parts, and then would weld them back up, drill, and tap them.
I've ran robots a bunch in the fitters too, and there's guys traveling all over the country making bank doing just that. I used one a few weeks ago welding tube, and have programmed ones with wire feed as well doing tube and pipe, some for food grade and some in chemical plants. They're really good and can make beautiful welds very quickly, but everything has to be absolutely perfect, which doesn't always happen, and you need a bang up welder to run them. So there will always be a need for good manual welders, so we often joke at work that we'll be the last morons working when everyone else is relaxing at home and doing cool stuff because no one else needs to work anymore, but they can't build robots to do our jobs yet
I'm sure there is, likely track units so you have guys running them to make sure they're going good, and most of those are likely sub arc units. But there's a ton of hand welding too, just pretty much the nature of big things. There's a big enough tolerance where robots don't do as well, and each ship is unique because it depends on how it all fits. Even with the robots you still need a ton of hand welders, and the guys running the robots have to know what they're doing.
Even before i got in the fitters, on my first welding job building rops for combines i was doing critical welds instead of the robots, and was trusted to do them when the robot was down, which was often. I worked what they called "the buck" and it was where all the different pieces came together, very physical job with lifting and setting 70 pounds or so, climbing, and kneeling on steel and over clamps and fixtures all day. We did the bottom critical welds and put all the trim pieces on too at a different table, so we were the bottleneck of the line, and were pretty much always buried in work and the production times were pretty harsh. I learned it well, and pretty soon i was the fastest around by a country mile, and so the entire crew had it good and weren't bothered at all because we were better than first shift. Production was 12 for 3 guys and i would knock out 6 a night by myself since they didn't have enough guys, so they wisely let us do our thing. They even had me wreck them out for ones that were too messed up to fix, or repair welds that were out of spec. On overtime i would babysit a robot but had problems staying awake after the intense first 8 hours (2nd and 3rd shift working 5 16s), so i asked to do hand welding so they had me do massive diesel tanks.
At cat i was the last of the super heavy dualshield hand welds, they were transitioning to a robot. It didn't do too hot, so i ended up in salvage arc gouging the bad welds out and doing them manually. I also would have to get taps out that had broken off in parts, and then would weld them back up, drill, and tap them.
I've ran robots a bunch in the fitters too, and there's guys traveling all over the country making bank doing just that. I used one a few weeks ago welding tube, and have programmed ones with wire feed as well doing tube and pipe, some for food grade and some in chemical plants. They're really good and can make beautiful welds very quickly, but everything has to be absolutely perfect, which doesn't always happen, and you need a bang up welder to run them. So there will always be a need for good manual welders, so we often joke at work that we'll be the last morons working when everyone else is relaxing at home and doing cool stuff because no one else needs to work anymore, but they can't build robots to do our jobs yet
Nutball
TreeHouser
Not using robots could in theory help society, because if people have to learn to do things well and right the first time, while having attention to detail, then they might use that behavior in daily life. But, then some people just never learn to do anything well.I bet that works pretty well!
I'm sure there is, likely track units so you have guys running them to make sure they're going good, and most of those are likely sub arc units. But there's a ton of hand welding too, just pretty much the nature of big things. There's a big enough tolerance where robots don't do as well, and each ship is unique because it depends on how it all fits. Even with the robots you still need a ton of hand welders, and the guys running the robots have to know what they're doing.
Even before i got in the fitters, on my first welding job building rops for combines i was doing critical welds instead of the robots, and was trusted to do them when the robot was down, which was often. I worked what they called "the buck" and it was where all the different pieces came together, very physical job with lifting and setting 70 pounds or so, climbing, and kneeling on steel and over clamps and fixtures all day. We did the bottom critical welds and put all the trim pieces on too at a different table, so we were the bottleneck of the line, and were pretty much always buried in work and the production times were pretty harsh. I learned it well, and pretty soon i was the fastest around by a country mile, and so the entire crew had it good and weren't bothered at all because we were better than first shift. Production was 12 for 3 guys and i would knock out 6 a night by myself since they didn't have enough guys, so they wisely let us do our thing. They even had me wreck them out for ones that were too messed up to fix, or repair welds that were out of spec. On overtime i would babysit a robot but had problems staying awake after the intense first 8 hours (2nd and 3rd shift working 5 16s), so i asked to do hand welding so they had me do massive diesel tanks.
At cat i was the last of the super heavy dualshield hand welds, they were transitioning to a robot. It didn't do too hot, so i ended up in salvage arc gouging the bad welds out and doing them manually. I also would have to get taps out that had broken off in parts, and then would weld them back up, drill, and tap them.
I've ran robots a bunch in the fitters too, and there's guys traveling all over the country making bank doing just that. I used one a few weeks ago welding tube, and have programmed ones with wire feed as well doing tube and pipe, some for food grade and some in chemical plants. They're really good and can make beautiful welds very quickly, but everything has to be absolutely perfect, which doesn't always happen, and you need a bang up welder to run them. So there will always be a need for good manual welders, so we often joke at work that we'll be the last morons working when everyone else is relaxing at home and doing cool stuff because no one else needs to work anymore, but they can't build robots to do our jobs yet
Robots are like any labor saving device, by that logic we would still be cutting trees with axes and handsaws. In time humans will likely not be needed at all for labor, especially once computers surpass human intelligence. But not all jobs are created equal, and to program one to replace skilled tradesmen is likely to be one of the last jobs to be automated, simply because engineers don't understand all the intricacies of the tasks themselves. In a similar vein they've tried for years to turn construction into a factory production job, and pretty much every attempt has been a dismal failure. Ironically computers do really well at drawing stuff and doing calculations, so the white collar jobs like engineers, accountants, hr people, and lawyers are likely first on the chopping block.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Nutball
TreeHouser
I disagree, as far as what I meant in my earlier post. There's still a lot of skill involved with chainsaws and ropes. We aren't cutting trees with robots. That's like comparing electric welders with some sort of brazing or forge welding. We're talking about robots vs people actively running the tools. I'm not so much talking about maximizing labor to better society, but to hold people to a high standard of doing things.
Computers are great tools that do clearly and without error or fatigue what we do by experience and intuition, but I'm not sure that they will ever surpass human intelligence, depending on how you define intelligence. I've heard something along the lines of how something created can't be better than the creator. I think this holds true in most cases. You can simulate the abilities of the human mind to a great extent, but the real difficulty would be in getting AI to truly understand things rather than making a bunch of cold dry calculations. There's even some people who go through the motions without understanding what they are doing.
I'll stop here, before I get really philosophical.
chris_girard
Treehouser
Just getting back into welding myself these days.
Looking to get a Miller mig/tig combo.
Looking to get a Miller mig/tig combo.
I guess I'm not following, how she had to fix others work? Yeah if she's gotta fix stuff I'm sure they've been held accountable, and some of that she's showing is par for the course anyways. I worked salvage where i did exactly that, fixing others mistakes, it's production work so it's expected. Shipbuilding doesn't pay that great, especially structural, so they kinda get what they get, and welders are always bitching about how terrible the fit is, but yes some of those were pretty bad. Ships are so big that bad fits are kinda expected, when i was doing heavy work in a factory they were bad too, we had to fill in over an inch gap with .052 wire. I'll never forget i had turned down and was stitching it together like they taught in school and the old timer training me said "wtf are you doing?" He had me turn back up and go back and forth spattering weld in the gap til it closed up enough to start whipping it in. Took a fraction of the time and you didn't have to turn down, and even to this day I'll do similar to fill a large gap depending on what it is.
If you notice how cozy she is in some of those spots just imagine a much bigger guy trying to fit in there too, what's easy for some is hell for others, so i have a suspicion they have other guys hump her wire and stuff and make sure she keeps her hood down. I did that role for a lot of my career, and still do it now, fitting in to terrible spots and welding stuff. As an apprentice i had certain tasks that i should be doing, but once i was welding all the time they flat out said "we have guys for that, we need you with your hood down." They would also just tack stuff and go, and then i would come in on the weld out crew to weld everything up, and since they often aren't that good of welders they didn't always give you good fits, but that was what you were there for. I got broke in doing tank repairs as a pup, where you would go in and repair reactors and stuff, welding stuff in a mirror with your hands shoved between pipes, etc. We did a stainless tank that was so tight the foreman couldn't fit so even though I'm claustrophobic i volunteered, and had to bend at the waist to collapse my hip bones enough to be shoved in the rest of the way. They then flipped the tank with a bridge crane with me in it until the new nozzle we added was on the bottom, then tossed the mig gun through another flange and wired a box fan on the bigger one i fit through.
If you notice how cozy she is in some of those spots just imagine a much bigger guy trying to fit in there too, what's easy for some is hell for others, so i have a suspicion they have other guys hump her wire and stuff and make sure she keeps her hood down. I did that role for a lot of my career, and still do it now, fitting in to terrible spots and welding stuff. As an apprentice i had certain tasks that i should be doing, but once i was welding all the time they flat out said "we have guys for that, we need you with your hood down." They would also just tack stuff and go, and then i would come in on the weld out crew to weld everything up, and since they often aren't that good of welders they didn't always give you good fits, but that was what you were there for. I got broke in doing tank repairs as a pup, where you would go in and repair reactors and stuff, welding stuff in a mirror with your hands shoved between pipes, etc. We did a stainless tank that was so tight the foreman couldn't fit so even though I'm claustrophobic i volunteered, and had to bend at the waist to collapse my hip bones enough to be shoved in the rest of the way. They then flipped the tank with a bridge crane with me in it until the new nozzle we added was on the bottom, then tossed the mig gun through another flange and wired a box fan on the bigger one i fit through.
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
I couldn't do the confined space stuff. If I could, I'd still be running a wood boiler.
That's the thing man, that's not special that's just the job, and tree work gives me a chance to do my own thing that's different from my fitter job so I'm not as susceptible during downswings in the sector and gives me more control and autonomy with my income and work requirements. My training in rigging has obviously helped me with trees, and honestly i view tree work as a different branch of rigging that has greatly helped as a fitter too. Welding is only a small fraction of the job, and the more rigging techniques and knowledge the better.
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