Tree felling vids
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Jed
TreeHouser
Gary: The difference between your writing and mine is that you tell one heck of a crackin story that is worth reading. Thanks so much for that.
Kyle: Thanks for actually wading through all that gobbleygook, and taking the time to make a calculated response. Yer a bright man. Hope you get feeling better pretty quick here. Man, it takes a bit. (At least in my wife's case) And it's a job for a cowboy to get through. Best of luck mate, and I love you too.
Frankie: Thanks for that brother, and obviously I am interpreting drunkenness and sobriety metaphorically. If not, then I would embrace teetotalism out of a desire to follow Jesus, but that, as I see it is a job for Mormons and Muslims.
Mick: No I wasn't pissed, and therefore cannot have that excuse for writing what you, B and Kyle deem to be illogical, but for now I stand by absolutely everything I have said. I plan to develop and perhaps even render my thoughs more persuasive to the uncongenial in future posts, but I should probably not clog up the felling vid thread with it.
Regarding the tie-in twice stuff, I just don't get it, and am starting to think that the emerging phenomenon is solely the result of cultural conditioning. I would never preach at men who work in other regions, but I respect exactly zero PNW climbers who regularly tie in twice. As a rule they are men who are in their twenties, and at least two-thirds slower than men who are twice their age and so should be ashamed of themselves. The redundancy argument is absurd in my opinion. Do you wear two seatbelts in the car?
Having said that, I have tried it several times, most recenty because Jake wanted me to for a youtube vid that he was making, (he catches a ton of flak from the schoolmarms) but I'm not going to do it again. It's one thing if a guy thinks that a hard leaning stem could blow up, and so wants to srt choke it with his climb line, or is on a snotty enough stick that the conditions justify wrapping it, or is silly enough to rig a huge top with green ground guys; but other than that, I think it is superfluous.
Kyle: Thanks for actually wading through all that gobbleygook, and taking the time to make a calculated response. Yer a bright man. Hope you get feeling better pretty quick here. Man, it takes a bit. (At least in my wife's case) And it's a job for a cowboy to get through. Best of luck mate, and I love you too.
Frankie: Thanks for that brother, and obviously I am interpreting drunkenness and sobriety metaphorically. If not, then I would embrace teetotalism out of a desire to follow Jesus, but that, as I see it is a job for Mormons and Muslims.
Mick: No I wasn't pissed, and therefore cannot have that excuse for writing what you, B and Kyle deem to be illogical, but for now I stand by absolutely everything I have said. I plan to develop and perhaps even render my thoughs more persuasive to the uncongenial in future posts, but I should probably not clog up the felling vid thread with it.
Regarding the tie-in twice stuff, I just don't get it, and am starting to think that the emerging phenomenon is solely the result of cultural conditioning. I would never preach at men who work in other regions, but I respect exactly zero PNW climbers who regularly tie in twice. As a rule they are men who are in their twenties, and at least two-thirds slower than men who are twice their age and so should be ashamed of themselves. The redundancy argument is absurd in my opinion. Do you wear two seatbelts in the car?
Having said that, I have tried it several times, most recenty because Jake wanted me to for a youtube vid that he was making, (he catches a ton of flak from the schoolmarms) but I'm not going to do it again. It's one thing if a guy thinks that a hard leaning stem could blow up, and so wants to srt choke it with his climb line, or is on a snotty enough stick that the conditions justify wrapping it, or is silly enough to rig a huge top with green ground guys; but other than that, I think it is superfluous.
Burnham
Woods walker
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Actually, I consider a car seat belt to be two.
When car seat belts first came out there was only a lap belt. That's what I would wear in our 1960s cars when we wore seat belts. Some of the cars our family owned before that had no seat belts so we didn't wear them then. When I learned to drive as a teenager we did have a lap belt. Shoulder belts had just come out in the late 60s and they were a separate attachment item. It was a hassle but they were there and my buddy Mike had just gotten a brand new 1970 mustang Mach 1 fastback. I remember the color was called burnt sienna. Mike, Ric and I we're going to take it for a test drive and I got in the back seat and they got in the front and I fussed at them...said let's try out the new seat belts just to see how they work. I was in the back seat and they reluctantly fussed and cussed at me but went ahead and put on the shoulder belt. It was a little bit rainy and in the first S curve Mike went into he lost it at about 40 mph and went head-on into a telephone pole which sunk about 2 ft into the front of the car. A 2-hour old brand new mustang totaled. But we got out with no injuries probably due to our age being seniors in high school at the time and the seatbelts that we all had on. In the backseat I only had a lap belt and I probably bounced off the front seat to some degree but don't remember getting hurt at all. The other two guys probably owe me their life but at least kept them out of the hospital. Anyway... That was a case where one belt would have kept them alive but I'm sure they would have probably subluxated their spine against the dash or their face against the steering wheel and come out chewed up but as it was they came out smelling like a rose. Mike's father was a Delta pilot and he wasn't happy but he had just placed insurance on the car a couple of hours before the wreck so it ended up getting replaced. He had to be really pissed but I don't remember that part of it.
Two is one... One is none. No seat belt and somebody likely would have died. One seat belt, a lap belt, and folks would have probably survived but would have been hurt badly anyway I'm sure. Two seat belts... We all got out and walked away fat and happy, full of piss and vinegar with a great story to tell. Here I am telling it 50 years later.
And I still always wear seat belts. I don't consider myself a crybaby or unnecessarily scared although I do occasionally carry a man purse... But I keep things that kill people in it so that kind of offsets it a little bit.
I just generally try to stack the odds in my favor so that I can have a chance to get home safely and do the things in life that I want to keep enjoying as smoothly and easily and pain-free as I can while I can. It would be faster not to put on seat belts every time I get in the truck... but it's a small price to pay for not getting messed up that one time that you don't expect to happen but suddenly does happen.
When car seat belts first came out there was only a lap belt. That's what I would wear in our 1960s cars when we wore seat belts. Some of the cars our family owned before that had no seat belts so we didn't wear them then. When I learned to drive as a teenager we did have a lap belt. Shoulder belts had just come out in the late 60s and they were a separate attachment item. It was a hassle but they were there and my buddy Mike had just gotten a brand new 1970 mustang Mach 1 fastback. I remember the color was called burnt sienna. Mike, Ric and I we're going to take it for a test drive and I got in the back seat and they got in the front and I fussed at them...said let's try out the new seat belts just to see how they work. I was in the back seat and they reluctantly fussed and cussed at me but went ahead and put on the shoulder belt. It was a little bit rainy and in the first S curve Mike went into he lost it at about 40 mph and went head-on into a telephone pole which sunk about 2 ft into the front of the car. A 2-hour old brand new mustang totaled. But we got out with no injuries probably due to our age being seniors in high school at the time and the seatbelts that we all had on. In the backseat I only had a lap belt and I probably bounced off the front seat to some degree but don't remember getting hurt at all. The other two guys probably owe me their life but at least kept them out of the hospital. Anyway... That was a case where one belt would have kept them alive but I'm sure they would have probably subluxated their spine against the dash or their face against the steering wheel and come out chewed up but as it was they came out smelling like a rose. Mike's father was a Delta pilot and he wasn't happy but he had just placed insurance on the car a couple of hours before the wreck so it ended up getting replaced. He had to be really pissed but I don't remember that part of it.
Two is one... One is none. No seat belt and somebody likely would have died. One seat belt, a lap belt, and folks would have probably survived but would have been hurt badly anyway I'm sure. Two seat belts... We all got out and walked away fat and happy, full of piss and vinegar with a great story to tell. Here I am telling it 50 years later.
And I still always wear seat belts. I don't consider myself a crybaby or unnecessarily scared although I do occasionally carry a man purse... But I keep things that kill people in it so that kind of offsets it a little bit.
I just generally try to stack the odds in my favor so that I can have a chance to get home safely and do the things in life that I want to keep enjoying as smoothly and easily and pain-free as I can while I can. It would be faster not to put on seat belts every time I get in the truck... but it's a small price to pay for not getting messed up that one time that you don't expect to happen but suddenly does happen.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
Clunk, click, every trip.
Or so the PSA used to say in the UK.
Or so the PSA used to say in the UK.
I think our boy Rico ties in twice too, though he is a bit legendary for eschewing certain fully accepted safety rules such as hard hats and hearing pro.
If you have ultimate awareness of all that goes on around you such that you don't need to tie in twice to guard against unforeseen mishaps, why where a hard hat?
Ya heard of Mark Chisholm, right cuh? Legit one of the world's best production climbers as well as world champ in competitions. Also one of the world's best trainers. Since we know that Eastside does not skimp on training, sign up next time Mark comes out your way, or better yet just have him come to Eastside and do a sesh.
I tooken a training day he put on, it was superb. And I once had him come and do the climbing on one of my storm damage jobs that was over my skill level at the time. It was a Saturday, he got there late due to traffic from NJ. He took what seemed like forever to set up. And then boom boom, snip snip and snip, cut cut, the nasty job was done with apparent ease well before lunch.
Mark is a strong proponent of safety in treework. I believe his uncle died OTJ from electrocution and Mark vowed that will never happen again in his family or on his watch.
Mark ties in twice.
Be the bad mofo who is super smooth and productive while being super safe.
And try not to let your ego blow up that so many of us here seem to care about your safety.
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pantheraba
More biners!!!
Excellent post...you are, to me, describing the consummate professional. Disciplined, smooth action, skilled, efficient, example to others.
Chisholm is a great one to use as a model. As are Burnham, Jerry, Stig.....
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
You guys ever see the controversy between the tower repair technicians who free climb and those who clip in twice for every single move?
Actually decent points on each side.
Actually decent points on each side.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
No. Haven't seen that one but I bet it's a good one.
I used to do a lot of rock climbing and back in my 20s a lot of that was free climbing. No ropes no nothing, three to four hundred foot exposures. Whenever I did a headstand on the side of a vertical face I would put on a safety line so I wasn't totally crazy. But I've got a picture somewhere of a small ledge doing a headstand in a ranger push-up position. But I did have a rope on.
Anything can get carried overboard. But in a tree with only a lanyard when you're making a cut near your lanyard that lanyard is all there is. I don't say be tied in twice all the time but in critical situations... Oh hell yeah. I guess some people's critical situations are different than others.
I know Burnham has referenced situations where the Forest Service allowed free climbing but it required three points of contact at all times is how I remember it. And I'm sure that was the climbing aspect of it and not using a saw at that time. I'll have to let him weigh in on that since I can't quote chapter imand verse and I may have it totally effed up anyway.
I used to do a lot of rock climbing and back in my 20s a lot of that was free climbing. No ropes no nothing, three to four hundred foot exposures. Whenever I did a headstand on the side of a vertical face I would put on a safety line so I wasn't totally crazy. But I've got a picture somewhere of a small ledge doing a headstand in a ranger push-up position. But I did have a rope on.
Anything can get carried overboard. But in a tree with only a lanyard when you're making a cut near your lanyard that lanyard is all there is. I don't say be tied in twice all the time but in critical situations... Oh hell yeah. I guess some people's critical situations are different than others.
I know Burnham has referenced situations where the Forest Service allowed free climbing but it required three points of contact at all times is how I remember it. And I'm sure that was the climbing aspect of it and not using a saw at that time. I'll have to let him weigh in on that since I can't quote chapter imand verse and I may have it totally effed up anyway.
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Jed
TreeHouser
And try not to let your ego blow up that so many of us here seem to care about your safety. 
Dude, yer so stinkin funny.
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have, "dissed Burnham," with that one. As I tried to state, people who tie in twice usually have STRONG cultural motivators for doing so... like losing your job! If I am not mistaken, my good man Burnham has recently retired from THE US FOREST SERVICE! Pretty darn good incentive to go ahead and tie-in twice.
Production climbing is just a whole nuther animal, and as for the cut-protection argument... there is just no way in heck I'll ever be worthy of making a significant contribution to beating THAT dead carcass even further into the ground. Ever hear of a steel-core flipline? Why not two? Why not three? Hey Jed, good Idea, why not four. Oh, don't be an idiot, man, that fourth one is redundant.
When is the last time (non-srt related) that a poor guy fell by cutting hisself outa the tree?
Gary: I now need to disagree with you as much as possible, if, for no other reason than that I get a CRACKIN story out of it.
Oh, and Corey... I wasn't suggesting that I could ever touch Chisolm with a ten foot pole. But if I ever did, It'd be cause I was cheating less encumbered.
Dude, yer so stinkin funny.Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have, "dissed Burnham," with that one. As I tried to state, people who tie in twice usually have STRONG cultural motivators for doing so... like losing your job! If I am not mistaken, my good man Burnham has recently retired from THE US FOREST SERVICE! Pretty darn good incentive to go ahead and tie-in twice.
Production climbing is just a whole nuther animal, and as for the cut-protection argument... there is just no way in heck I'll ever be worthy of making a significant contribution to beating THAT dead carcass even further into the ground. Ever hear of a steel-core flipline? Why not two? Why not three? Hey Jed, good Idea, why not four. Oh, don't be an idiot, man, that fourth one is redundant.
When is the last time (non-srt related) that a poor guy fell by cutting hisself outa the tree?
Gary: I now need to disagree with you as much as possible, if, for no other reason than that I get a CRACKIN story out of it.
Oh, and Corey... I wasn't suggesting that I could ever touch Chisolm with a ten foot pole. But if I ever did, It'd be cause I was cheating less encumbered.
Burnham
Woods walker
It has happened time and time again over the near 40 years I've been paying attention, you young fool.
And the possibility of losing my job never was the slightest factor in my SOP of tie in twice when using a chainsaw aloft...I was far more concerned with being crippled or losing my life, you young and seemingly ever more foolish fool
.
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Mick!
TreeHouser
I guess It’s up to Jed, but I’ll tell you why I try to TIT when cutting, not always whilst scrabbling round a spready broadleaf but nearly always when ringing down a pole.
Apart from the cutting thing it’s the chance of human error, not setting the Krab right, not dressing the knot right, the line hanging up on a stub at the rear of the spar.
Does it take a little longer? Of course, but other decisions I make in the tree gain or lose more time than the inconvenience of advancing two lines.
I’m not one for bumper sticker philosophy but there’s a saying in the shooting community that can be transferred to any area where there’s a dangerous activity/reward for speedy exécution coefficient.
‘All the pheasants ever bred will not make up for one man dead’
Apart from the cutting thing it’s the chance of human error, not setting the Krab right, not dressing the knot right, the line hanging up on a stub at the rear of the spar.
Does it take a little longer? Of course, but other decisions I make in the tree gain or lose more time than the inconvenience of advancing two lines.
I’m not one for bumper sticker philosophy but there’s a saying in the shooting community that can be transferred to any area where there’s a dangerous activity/reward for speedy exécution coefficient.
‘All the pheasants ever bred will not make up for one man dead’
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SeanKroll
Treehouser
I tie-in twice.
I cut off stubs.
Nobody had every come close to falling out of a tree astound me.
I keep my saw in wood (and a rare touch to the dirt.
I've seen slow, dangerous, and bad flip-line only climbers.
I've seen fast flip-line only climbers.
I've heard of flip-line only climbers wrecking their hips and knees.
I cut off stubs.
Nobody had every come close to falling out of a tree astound me.
I keep my saw in wood (and a rare touch to the dirt.
I've seen slow, dangerous, and bad flip-line only climbers.
I've seen fast flip-line only climbers.
I've heard of flip-line only climbers wrecking their hips and knees.
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pete mctree
Treehouser
He will probably survive- quadriplegic climbers might struggle to get production work though
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
You work for me, you TITS. Do I always tie in twice? No. When I don’t I make damn sure my saw is nowhere near my lifeline. I also use a break away lanyard quite often so I pose the illusion of being TIT. I also one hand a top handle on a regular basis but only when I see it fit the situation. That and I’m a lazy fook. I will never advise anyone to do what I do. It’s a do as I say not as I do thing.
Basically I’m trying to say that although I might not follow all the rules, I won’t condemn them either. When I break a rule, I’m very aware that I am. It’s not a production thing. It’s an experience thing. Jed. My west coast brother. I wish you would TIT unless deemed necessary to not. A few extra seconds added up over a day is only a few extra minutes.
Basically I’m trying to say that although I might not follow all the rules, I won’t condemn them either. When I break a rule, I’m very aware that I am. It’s not a production thing. It’s an experience thing. Jed. My west coast brother. I wish you would TIT unless deemed necessary to not. A few extra seconds added up over a day is only a few extra minutes.
flushcut
TreeHouser
Taken out of context this is pretty funny.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
Yes. Typed with a double meaning. From a different movie than I am quoting “I’m kind of a big deal”
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
Imagine how much of a bad ass he could be with some gear on
