Tree felling vids

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At :03 the groundie has his back turned and is looking at his hand held device, while the faller is clearly well into the back cut.
Except he owns no device, no phone.
On the second video, maple pulled by truck (roll over and play dead) looks like the same groundie is standing well withing the 100% tree height potential drop zone. AND there is an unintentional bypass in your face cut, which indicates a high probability of poor falling skills..
During the start of the back cut, the ground man was standing in the video frame, next to the shed & saws we were intent on saving. He moved back further just as I zoomed in on the main action. How are you seeing the face cut when I show the back cut from an over-the-shoulder point of view?
 
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You may find it a lot easier to match the face cuts if you make the top cut first..

and ONCE AGAIN... the guy in the white shirt standing by the chimney has no business in the DZ... you could make a case for the guy operating the chipper winch, but that's a violation too.. And he's not much more than 15-20 degrees off the lay on the second tree..
 
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My favorite.... LOVE those FAT!!! hinge fibers, kept it on at the stump... NICE!
 
Introductions are in order

I don't mean to bust your balls here.. Maybe I'm just trying to save a life out there somewhere... maybe someone is watching that will listen and make a change..
Butch can tell you not to "worry about it", but it's unlikely you'd get the same sentiment from the family of someone that died as a result of your actions.
Let's back up a good bit here.

Hi there, I'm GP with Forest Keepers Tree Care. Daniel Murphy of Murphy's Tree Care, I presume? Nice to meet you.

Allow me to introduce you to Forest Keepers:

We started providing quality tree care to the Cape Cod, Massachusetts area in 1997 as a group of talented, highly skilled individuals from all backgrounds in the tree care industry: climbers, loggers, and land clearing specialists. "Forest Keepers" was the name we chose, because it summed up the essence of what mankind is meant to do: keep the earth, tend it, cultivate it. One of the key founders had worked for Davey Tree as a climber doing line clearing and residential work. He is a certified arborist with over 30 years of climbing and arbor care experience, and has passed on that knowledge & wisdom to his son. His son worked directly with him, starting up a "branch" in the Colorado Springs area for about 5 years. Then he worked on the Cape Cod tree crew in Mass. for a number of years as a climber, before heading westward to start a new "branch" of the business in the Kansas City metro area.

So now Forest Keepers Tree Care is a local family owned company based in Lawrence, KS. We run the gamut, from large and hazardous removals to fine pruning of ornamentals. We specialize in climbing which enables us to access trees in any location; in fact, we don't even own a bucket truck yet! We also have years of experience in technical rigging (with our GRCS, blocks, lowering ropes, chipper winch, etc.). In many cases, trees grow in places that can be very challenging when it comes time to prune or remove them, but our climbers can access anything when a bucket truck is of no use. We have extensive knowledge and experience when it comes to high risk situations (power lines, roofs, structures, or dead & decaying trees). We tend to get the mid to high-end jobs in our area, especially challenging removals that other companies don't want to touch (dangerous, difficult, dying trees).

We have done specialty work from California to Massachusetts, and hurricane relief and storm cleanup from Florida to Michigan. We are now offering world-class arboriculture at affordable prices to the residents of Lawrence & Topeka, KS, and the greater Kansas City metro area (50 mile service radius).

My goals here are:
  • To make friends with everyone here
  • To glean from the wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum
  • To contribute in whatever way i can
  • To promote our business

So howdy, glad to meet you. Hope to keep things friendly.

P.S. In 25 years, we've never had an insurance claim. We've never done any significant property damage (excepting the occasional minor gutter dings and fence oopsies that tend to come with this line of work) and our western branches have never had any serious injuries. Never a fatality.
 
Good stuff... It looks like you are flying straight... Do you go by "GP" or just remaining anonymous on this forum? Its all good and if you would like to introduce yourself in addition to your company, please do. And feel free to call me after dark... I work out of Wayne PA.. not hard to find on google... That pretty much goes for anyone on this forum... You might be surprised.. People say I AM much nicer the phone ;)

Stay safe out there....
 
GP,

"our western branches have never had any serious injuries. Never a fatality."

One thing Dr John Ball says about safety in the tree care industry is that when a serious injury or fatality does occur, and from an obvious unsafe practice, many times the company will respond.. we've done it like that for years and never had an injury or accident.. I have only watched a few of your videos and you seem to regularly have ground personnel standing within 100% of tree height.. Industry standards require 200%, which i think is ridiculous (depending on the tree/spar)... But 120% seems pretty much common sense... If you want to glean some knowledge.. there it is...
 
Hey GP, what's your take on wearing chainsaw chaps or trousers? I'm not about busting chops, just curious.
 
Daniel, one minute you are razzing someone and commenting on their not safe work practices.

Next minute, you are posting a video where you don't conform to safe working practices such as the micro notch, the stepped back cut, salami cut on a hung up tree and some of the other videos you have posted over the years...

Your usual response is something along the lines of not going along with the norm and trying new shit.

What gives?
 
Yea - whassupwiddat?

qy8zGg2.gif
 
Daniel, one minute you are razzing someone and commenting on their not safe work practices.

Next minute, you are posting a video where you don't conform to safe working practices such as the micro notch, the stepped back cut, salami cut on a hung up tree and some of the other videos you have posted over the years...

Your usual response is something along the lines of not going along with the norm and trying new shit.

What gives?

Common sense bro..

Then definitions and viewpoint ...

Please define " safe working practices".... Just because you won't find the micro-notch, step cut or vertical snap cut cut in a European training manual, doesn't mean they're not safe... Every time something new is tried that could be dangerous, its not traditional or tested, but doesn't make it unsafe NECESSARILY! Many of the techniques I introduced are actually far safer then the option of climbing and rigging, and provide safety advantages not found in traditional techniques...

Then there is a guy with limited experience falling trees that regularly leaves non-essential personnel in the drop zone.... Could easily get someone killed.. and I AM the only on this forum that says anything about it.. That's like saying.. Don't point a loaded gun at anyone... it's just common sense.. Your viewpoint could be that I AM razzing him... My viewpoint is that I AM trying to save someone from getting killed on a tree job... It's just doing the right thing..

having to explain it to you... What's up with that???

PS. If he hadn't made excuses to defend his practices I would have let it go...
 
Grab some popcorn.. this could be fun...


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TonuP6jJxiE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Let's back up a good bit here.

Hi there, I'm GP with Forest Keepers Tree Care. Daniel Murphy of Murphy's Tree Care, I presume? Nice to meet you.

Allow me to introduce you to Forest Keepers:

We started providing quality tree care to the Cape Cod, Massachusetts area in 1997 as a group of talented, highly skilled individuals from all backgrounds in the tree care industry: climbers, loggers, and land clearing specialists. "Forest Keepers" was the name we chose, because it summed up the essence of what mankind is meant to do: keep the earth, tend it, cultivate it. One of the key founders had worked for Davey Tree as a climber doing line clearing and residential work. He is a certified arborist with over 30 years of climbing and arbor care experience, and has passed on that knowledge & wisdom to his son. His son worked directly with him, starting up a "branch" in the Colorado Springs area for about 5 years. Then he worked on the Cape Cod tree crew in Mass. for a number of years as a climber, before heading westward to start a new "branch" of the business in the Kansas City metro area.

So now Forest Keepers Tree Care is a local family owned company based in Lawrence, KS. We run the gamut, from large and hazardous removals to fine pruning of ornamentals. We specialize in climbing which enables us to access trees in any location; in fact, we don't even own a bucket truck yet! We also have years of experience in technical rigging (with our GRCS, blocks, lowering ropes, chipper winch, etc.). In many cases, trees grow in places that can be very challenging when it comes time to prune or remove them, but our climbers can access anything when a bucket truck is of no use. We have extensive knowledge and experience when it comes to high risk situations (power lines, roofs, structures, or dead & decaying trees). We tend to get the mid to high-end jobs in our area, especially challenging removals that other companies don't want to touch (dangerous, difficult, dying trees).

We have done specialty work from California to Massachusetts, and hurricane relief and storm cleanup from Florida to Michigan. We are now offering world-class arboriculture at affordable prices to the residents of Lawrence & Topeka, KS, and the greater Kansas City metro area (50 mile service radius).

My goals here are:
  • To make friends with everyone here
  • To glean from the wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum
  • To contribute in whatever way i can
  • To promote our business

So howdy, glad to meet you. Hope to keep things friendly.

P.S. In 25 years, we've never had an insurance claim. We've never done any significant property damage (excepting the occasional minor gutter dings and fence oopsies that tend to come with this line of work) and our western branches have never had any serious injuries. Never a fatality.


GP,
How's it going??

Saw this story on TB under awakenings.. From the initial picture it seems like this company had two guys feeding the chipper when the tree went the wrong way.. Killed one and put the other in intensive care... Can't say for sure though as the tree may have just gone down in a storm ... Hopefully a good lesson to those that allow workers in the potential DZ during falling ..
https://globalnews.ca/news/4188523/maintenance-worker-died-tree-falls-storm-milton/
 
GP, How's it going??
Daniel, you kinda leaped out of the shadows, guns drawn & blazing before we were even formally introduced, had any kind of rapport or dialog. I'm not sure how I ended up in your crosshairs, but it's hard not to feel attacked. You obviously formed some sort of cemented first impression of our crew:

safety-meeting.jpg

But I'm telling you, safety is important to our crew and we haven't had any lost time accidents or any insurance claims -- we have an impeccable track record. I think you're judging us based on a couple of YouTube videos, which for sure don't tell the whole tale. In video, you have flattened perspectives and reduced depth-of-field -- sometimes making things look a lot closer than they actually are. Things didn't go down like you think you saw (devices, phones); we don't roll that way. We do have a bit of a green ground man who has a tendency to be mesmerized by the work, but we watch over him and caution him to move further away from the drop zone as it gets close to the drop time. But he works like a hoss and is a great friend. We certainly have his personal safety in mind all the time, and he's developing a stronger sense of caution and distances the more experience he gets.
 
If I see something that looks unusual in a pic or a vid I think long and hard about commenting on what I think I'm seeing.

Your groundy sounds just fine - he just needs a 'lil more 'speriece OTJ. I'm sure you're training him impeccably!
 
Call it tough love bro.. you sound like a decent guy and your company sounds like they are doing well....

I personally have a policy that no one within 120%ish of the tree/spar height once the back cut starts, and the faller makes the call as to where the groundies stand and when the drop zone is out of bounds.

The one time a few years back a buddy of mine had just rigged out a big front leaning oak and set a rope .. He processed to start blowing the yards with his back turned to the tree, during the falling cut. He knew without question that the tree had front lean and he was behind it, I knew that too, and yet I stopped him and told him to exit the drop zone before I started the back cut.. He got all irritated saying something about the tree having front lean... SO Should I have let him continue working near the tree, even though he was in no danger??


NFW... that doesn't matter.. its a policy that I enforce ALL THE TIME. There were two newbies on the job that day and it would have been a bad example to set for them.

Then I actually scolded a client the other day for allowing her son to walk around on their tennis court during a fall, after I had given her a nearby spot to watch from.. He wasn't close enough to get hurt, but he was close enough that I had to think about it, which is a distraction that I don't need during a challenging falling scenario.. She rightfully apologized...

I'll let it go now.. DO your thing...
 
Please do! Let it go!

I don't call it tough love - you don't even know the guy and you love him?

I call it rude and impolite.

I guess those are both the same thing.
 
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