The Official Work Pictures Thread

[Burnham]

A fixed position rope will usually stay in your groove, even if you swing a bit off of 90 degrees to it. But a moving rope has far more potential to climb out of that groove, especially if you get offline of that 90 degrees...WAY more.

Sure, lanyarded in is wise, and usually would offer you the opportunity to keep yourself from a catastrophic fall. Perhaps.

But that's the failsafe, the last option to keep from dying from auguring in. I would rather choose a less risky rappel anchor, myself.

I'd suggest an adjustable friction saver.

 

[SkwerI]

I remember the very first time I tried that, rappelling off a 25' pine tree stem so I could drop it from the ground. I didn't make my notches deep enough and my rope rolled off the top of the stem when I was still about 7-8' off the ground. It hurt just enough to make me a lot more careful in the future.

 

[ruel]

Thanks Burnham. I was thinking that looks like a really bad way to avoid using an adjustable friction saver

 

[cory]

I would think a deep notch is as basic to the right practice as a good rope and saddle is.

Re Jed's pic, I believe it is physically impossible for that rope to come out of that notch while rapelling Ddrt. Personally though, I'd make it a bit deeper just for increased peace of mind at almost no expense of extra time and effort spent cutting deeper.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

There are better ways. Plan accourdingly.
AFS for the win. Or learn how to cinch your SRT line, if you have enough rope (3× height), and put a loop through it to the ground. Use your SRT devise (best if attachable in line) to decend. Pull loop though your ccinch point. That notch shit will bite you unless you do as B described. Doubled line with figure/ rescue 8.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't like it. I was looking at it thinking "Is that something I'd like to try?", and the answer is "no". Wouldn't take that long to just bore a hole through the top, and you be sure that rope wouldn't go anywhere.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Fs faster, but yes.

 

[Burnham]

I would think a deep notch is as basic to the right practice as a good rope and saddle is.

Re Jed's pic, I believe it is physically impossible for that rope to come out of that notch while rapelling Ddrt. Personally though, I'd make it a bit deeper just for increased peace of mind at almost no expense of extra time and effort spent cutting deeper.

In that belief, Cory, you would be seriously mistaken. People have been crippled for life, and have died, believing as you do.

 

[cory]

Please kindly explain how that rope can come out of that notch. If I can understand that concept then I can perhaps understand where you are coming from

 

[cory]

I've heard this topic discussed before and no-one ever explains how that rope is going to come out of that notch.

 

[SkwerI]

Please kindly explain how that rope can come out of that notch. If I can understand that concept then I can perhaps understand where you are coming from

Because the rope twists as it passes over a friction point. It rolls right out of the notch with surprisingly little effort.

 

[gf beranek]

The running part of the line, from the friction hitch going up and into the notch, that part of the line, right where it enters the notch, can roll up the edge and right out of the notch. Most especially if / when changing the angle of descent any direction but straight down. Straight down only.

Large diameter stems and shallow notches are skull and cross-bones scenarios. Smaller stems and deep notches you're quite a bit safer. But straight down only, and keep a safety around the stem.

Still there's always a risk with the method, a potentially deadly risk if you're not backed up.

Likewise tying into a stub can end up the same. If you're going straight down it's usually OK, but if you change the angle of descent to the outward your climbline can walk, roll or creep out and off the end of stub.

I'm guilty of both. Many times over the years. I spent all of my career in the tops of Pacific Northwest conifers. Most climbers I know in the region has used both methods. Notches and stubs. After a long day in the spurs it's much, much nicer to rappel out of the tree, if you can.

As with all this work understand the risks and take the necessary precautions to minimize them. At the end of the day you should be OK.

But get complacent it could be the last descent of your career.

 

[Brock Mayo]

What I've been doing lately on the bare spar... running bowline choked around the stem, rigged to the SRS device of your choice, pull up the tail of the rope and clip or tie it to the loop of the running bowline, or the tail of the bowline. Descend on the single SRS part of the rope and then pull the rope out of the tree with the other side of the rope. No need for extra rope.
Sorry if this is old news for most folks, but somehow I'd never seen it until somewhat recently. You can get a hell of a lot of drag getting the rope moving on a large pitchy conifer!

 

[pantheraba]

Brilliant trick.. I had not heard of doing it that way before. Thanks.

 

[Burnham]

Cory, I think Brian and Jerry covered it pretty concisely. Make sense?

 

[stikine]

Gosh, I love what The Jedi can create with his pictures and then bail for a bit, he loves to bait y'all in. Fun stuff, but I think several distinguished members have really added some good information and watch outs.

 

[stikine]

And that's coming from a guy who doesn't do arb work. But has done a fair bit of other rope stuff.

 

[Mick!]

The stub scenario caught me out, rappelling down a small tree, using a stub on the other side to hold the rope, as you get lower the stub takes more and more of the weight as the amount of friction round the trunk decreases.
Then Pop! you are looking at the sky from the ground on your back wondering what the hell happened.

Back it up with you flip line wherever possible.

 

[biggun]

Can you show a video of your work on pruning such pines?

I have videos pruning trees but for a straight up and down like that I have never filmed it. Why bother?

As for doing the job, throwline into or over the crown. Base tied then SRT the job.

 

[cory]

Large diameter stems and shallow notches are skull and cross-bones scenarios. Smaller stems and deep notches you're quite a bit safer. But straight down only, and keep a safety around the stem.

Likewise tying into a stub can end up the same. If you're going straight down it's usually OK, but if you change the angle of descent to the outward your climbline can walk, roll or creep out and off the end of stub.

As with all this work understand the risks and take the necessary precautions to minimize them. At the end of the day you should be OK.

As usual, Gerry said it all.

What he said makes sense and was what I was thinking of, and stubs also came to mind and sure enough he included them in the explanation,.

 

[Sven]

I am constantly asked this question by people from different, from other continents, of different ages and work experience, but no one still dares to show a video of their work on such trees. Can you show a video of your work?

Why is this such a common retort? Posting pics or videos, especially on forums, isn’t just for ego-stroking. Good to keep learning and progressing as a professional.

 

[Sven]

Before you ask again:

 

[biggun]

What I've been doing lately on the bare spar... running bowline choked around the stem, rigged to the SRS device of your choice, pull up the tail of the rope and clip or tie it to the loop of the running bowline, or the tail of the bowline. Descend on the single SRS part of the rope and then pull the rope out of the tree with the other side of the rope. No need for extra rope.
Sorry if this is old news for most folks, but somehow I'd never seen it until somewhat recently. You can get a hell of a lot of drag getting the rope moving on a large pitchy conifer!

Exactly my method to a tee.

I am usually top tied SRT on removals. I put a crab on the short end (maybe 2 m) the clip the tail of my line through the bina.

The only danger is a friction burn to the hand on a long descent as the ropes run pretty close…. BUT you ain’t falling anywhere.

 

[SeanKroll]

#notasafetyculture
Nobody has fallen from a tree at ETW in almost a year. Maybe the company can get one of those

Accident Free For _____ Days.

SRT is super expensive (sarcasm). It costs the amount of a stick with a hole and tether (first real Rope Wrench was a stick, around the time of the F8 Revolver or a chain link for a friction source.









That's a basic trunk choke and retrieval method.

A metal link reduces friction.




Texas Tug helps with SRT redirects.






Making your trunk choke have as small, circular and horizontal as possible of a running bowline will make it hardest to retrieve.

Pre-"polishing" the rough bark by sliding your rope back and forth before descent a little will prime for the pull.

 

[Jed]

As usual, Gerry said it all.

What he said makes sense and was what I was thinking of, and stubs also came to mind and sure enough he included them in the explanation,.

As usual, Corey and Gerry said it all. Oh what a pother one raises for having junky internet. My stinkin phone wouldn't let the text screen pop up last night (thanks for the kind words Stikine, but, as usual, I don't deserve them) which allows one to text, and yet I COULD post the pics... the double post was NOT my idea. My wifey is on it right now with the internet company. The guy pulled up all his data, "Ok, so.... who's Jed?" wifey: "My husband." Internet dude: "Wow. Well... his iPhone is sucking the life out of your entire household." Thanks a ton Eastside for conducting ALL of your business via What's App over our stinkin phones.

Anyways gents... I couldn't type. If I had been able to, maybe I would have had the presence of mind to have screamed at the top of my lungs that my shallow "repel notch," was really only a means of zipping my saw down super fast for more gas.

But seriously though... yeah... what Gerry said... that stinkin rope will crawl right up out of a shallow-cut (read: without vertical walls) notch, especially if yer saw is cutting rough and yer rope is pretty wore. All that upward-running friction (as the boss explained about a hundred times better than I) will crawl right up and leave you like what Mick said. Happened to my buddy's dad and ended his career last year. Seans: This was at Arbor Magic and not Eastside. The rest of the near-fatalities (and literal fatality) are all ours though.😞😖

Yeah though... the crane boys are already up and runnin again as if nothin had ever happened, and with our old crane whose boom is supposed to be hooped, but is now somehow magically better. 🤔 My two closest buddies have already quit the company as a result. Lots of drama, but let us all thank God it's not on YouTube this time.

When I cut my rappel notch, I use darn near vertical walls, and I rip a solid three inches down. I round out the corners too for a smoother glide, and I feel like this also makes the notch a hair deeper as well.