Stop Using "Double Fisherman's Knot" to Refer to the "Poacher's Knot" AKA "Double Overhand Noose!"

Knotorious

That Guy With The Face
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For some strange reason, a stomach churning amount of arborists and tree climbers refer to the "double overhand noose" AKA "Poacher's knot" as the "double fisherman knot." Why? I have absolutely no idea, but I have reached a moment in my topological career where I refuse to sit by idly and allow it to continue without at least making one public post dissuading people from using this egregious misnomer.

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(Tying method for the Poacher's knot)

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(Double Overhand Noose AKA Poacher's Knot)


The "double fisherman's" is a bend, which is used to connect two ropes of equal or similar diameter together securely for life support applications or to form prusik loops to create friction hitches. For some strange reason, many tree climbers and arborists have regularly referred to the Poacher's loop (AKA double overhand noose) as the "double fisherman's knot."

I recently corrected the popular YouTuber, and "certified arborist and tree climbing expert" (his words, not mine), (name redacted), in a comment for a video in which he referred to the "Poacher's knot" AKA "double overhand noose" as the "double fisherman's bend" on two separate occasions in the video and in several other videos prior to that one. Not only is the name he used for this loop knot incorrect, but he even categorizes it as a "bend," which is also incorrect. A "bend," by definition, is a category/type of knot which is used to securely connect two (or more) ropes together.

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(Tying method for a Double Fisherman's "knot;" more accurately called a "bend")

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(Photo of a Double Fisherman's bend)


My motivation behind correcting him was pure; I have always enjoyed his videos and learned a great deal from him early on in my career as a recreational climber. I just wanted to make sure he sounded more professional, and I simply wanted him to use the correct terminology insofar as knots are concerned. I was disappointed when he became very defensive and even took the time to attempt to find a flaw in one of my videos, accusing me of incompetence/endangering my viewers (because I used a sheet bend to form a loop below one of my friction hitches during a testing session I filmed as a personal life choice; something I never suggested anyone do, and which wasn't a part of my hitch design), and citing all of his certifications, instead of simply saying, "yes, you're correct. It is not a bend, it is a sliding loop AKA noose. Thank you for bringing this to my attention."

Don't believe me? Look through the comments section for one of his most recent videos until you see one written by @Knotorious: (link redacted).

For the record, there exists a total of ZERO loop knots that are officially/correctly named the "double fisherman's loop." Even a "double fisherman's bend" is comprised of two double overhand knots, it their strangle knot form. with each end around the opposite rope's standing part. Therefore, if you tie what (name redacted) calls a "double fisherman bend," and what 80% of every other tree climber calls a "double fisherman knot," by creating an overhand noose (aka Poacher's knot/loop), it simply cannot possibly be referred to as a double fisherman knot -- and certainly not a bend -- because it doesn't connect to ropes together.

If you're skeptical of my claim and are one of the misinformed individuals who have been calling the "Poacher's loop/double overhand noose" a "double fisherman's knot," and -- God forbid -- a "double fisherman's BEND" for any amount of time, do me a favor and Google (or any search engine of your choosing) "double fisherman loop" and try to find even one, single formal website about the knot that uses that term. You won't and you can't. So don't bother. All you'll ever find are articles, images, and instructional videos/diagrams for the BEND; the method for connecting two ropes together. I have absolutely NO IDEA how the world of arboriculture began using such an egregious misnomer to the point where (name redacted) even alleges that...

"Yes in tree care it is called the Double Fisherman's, Double Fisherman's bend or sometimes loop in other trades it's called Scaffold knot and Poachers knot. Since my channel is about proper tree climbing I use the more proper terms. Look into the International Society of Arboriculture Certified Tree worker exam and you will see the proper terms being used. I do know proper tree climbing techiuques I am an ISA Certified Tree worker and ISA Certified Tree Worker Evaluator, I've been in tree care for more than 30+ years in the Private sector for 18 1/2 years and Municipal sector for 24 years."

First of all, he failed to admit that he misclassified a "Poacher's knot/double overhand noose" as a "bend," when it's actually a sliding loop knot AKA noose. Secondly, he attempted to gaslight me into believing that, in the "tree care" world, "Double Fisherman's/Double Fisherman's bend" are correct and the "more proper terms." Then he tells me to look into the ISA exam terminology. While I have my doubts that an ISA exam makes use of a misnomer for one of arboriculture's most prominent knots, even if it does, this simply means that this misnomer is so rampant and widespread that even the ISA are teaching prospective arborists the incorrect name for this knot. And thirdly, he claims that the Scaffold knot is the same as the fictitious "Double Fisherman bend" (when referring to the Poacher's knot; a sliding loop knot), and that the Poacher's knot is the same as the Scaffold knot, which is completely erroneous. While admittedly similar, a "Poacher's knot" is a "double overhand" in noose form, while a "Scaffold knot" is a "triple overhand" in noose form.

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(Tying method for the Scaffold Knot)

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(Scaffold Knot AKA Triple Overhand Noose)

I am confident that if you are reading this, and if you are a tree climber/tree guy/arborist, then you have -- at some point in your career or lifetime -- tied a "Poacher's knot" AKA "double overhand noose." I also am confident that either you, or someone you know, calls this knot a "double fisherman's knot/bend."

The point of this post is very simple. I want everyone to learn from my knowledge (all of which is easily verifiable online) and to do everything in your power to put a HALT to this bizarre trend within the tree world where this knot is so commonly misnamed. Do your part and start either calling it the "Poacher's knot" or the "double overhand noose." You'll be making the world a better place, while also having the opportunity to appear more intelligent than anyone who does not, and the ability to teach others about this misnomer before it spreads even further!

Sincerely,

@Knotorious
 

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I appreciate your attention to detail, and that's always kind of bothered me too. I will admit that in the past, I confused the poachers and scaffold knots. I thought they were different names for the same thing, and both doubled. I don't see any benefit to doing it three times as a proper scaffold.
 
I just call it a fisherman's knot, because I only tie one, and it is the knot used to tie to a fishing hook. I used to wonder if the "double" meant the 2 wraps before passing the end through them.
 
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I don't use the knot, so I don't care. Call it whatever you want, I like the name loopsie-doodle. I think I'll stick with that one.
That inspires me to give a ridiculous name to my next friction hitch or knot that I create. What do you think about the Deez Nutz friction hitch? Or the Yo Mama fixed loop knot? lol
 
I used to wonder if the "double" meant the 2 wraps before passing the end through them.
Indeed, Fisherman refers to the 2 wraps, like for the fishing hook on the line's end. Double fisherman is because two lines meet together, each one ending with a fisherman. So, two fishermans form this knot, aka "double fisherman".
 
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Indeed, Fisherman refers to the 2 wraps, like for the fishing hook on the line's end.
I strongly believe that the name for the "double fisherman's bend" refers to ONLY the two wraps that are used for each "fisherman's" knot variant. Look up "fisherman's bend" and then look up "double fisherman's bend." The only difference between each bend is the amount of wraps in each "fisherman's" knot.
Double fisherman is because two lines meet together, each one ending with a fisherman. So, two fishermans form this knot, aka "double fisherman".
I strongly disagree with this line of thought. The "double" refers to the two wraps, and the term "bend" that follows after this in its name ("double fisherman bend") immediately tells you that it involves two ropes tied together. The "double fisherman's" aspect does not refer to the fact that there are two doubled fisherman's knots.

Think about it: If that were true, then there would be no need to include the categorical terminology of "bend" after it! It would be redundant!
 
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I'm extremely pleased that this thread is a) getting attention from some actual, legitimate tree climbers and arborists and b) that nobody is stupid enough to disagree with me (unlike name redacted) regarding the misuse of the term "double fisherman knot/bend."

I know it sounds really petty, and small, but, please, spread awareness of this misnomer to everyone and anyone you can! Let's put a stop to this awful trend that has gone on for far too long within the world of arboriculture! It is a trend that would make Clifford Warren Ashley roll in his grave!
 
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I just redacted this guy's name and his video link from my posts. I don't want to smear campaign anyone.
 
I’m of the opinion now that as long as you know what they mean when using the term, no need to correct everybody. At one point people were correcting others grammar, or spelling on forums. For some reason loops are popular with saddle hunters, it might not be clear if someone simply stated they finish off their friction hitch with a double fishermen’s, could be eyes or a bend without further info.
The use of the term prussic is the same, “I use a prussic on my lanyard”, does it mean a Prusik friction hitch, or another type of friction hitch?
 
It's a bit like pronunciation. My boss pronounces "Prusik" as "Pru-Sack". He's obviously been saying it wrong his whole life, my corrections are meaningless.
 
Yeah, for years I thought the Alanis Morrisette song ‘Ironic’ contained the lyric ‘Like a death row hard-on two minutes too late’
Thought she was a saucy sort talking about erections in the electric chair and stuff.
Turns out the word was PARDON.
 
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I’m of the opinion now that as long as you know what they mean when using the term, no need to correct everybody. At one point people were correcting others grammar, or spelling on forums. For some reason loops are popular with saddle hunters, it might not be clear if someone simply stated they finish off their friction hitch with a double fishermen’s, could be eyes or a bend without further info.
The use of the term prussic is the same, “I use a prussic on my lanyard”, does it mean a Prusik friction hitch, or another type of friction hitch?
I agree with you. This thread was supposed to be my one and only outlet for this gripe after years of it annoying the piss out of me and me sitting there quietly. I don't make a habit of correcting people over this matter. I'm usually far too passive.
 
I agree with you. This thread was supposed to be my one and only outlet for this gripe after years of it annoying the piss out of me and me sitting there quietly. I don't make a habit of correcting people over this matter. I'm usually far too passive.
I can validate this, Knoto is very non confrontational, except online. Knots and hitches tickle his 'tisim, and when people do things wrong it's like a burr under his saddle, makes him itch or something.
 
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I can validate this, Knoto is very non confrontational, except online. Knots and hitches tickle his 'tisim, and when people do things wrong it's like a burr under his saddle, makes him itch or something.
Thank you for explaining that knots thoroughly tickle my autism.
"Wrong", however, would be subject to interpretation.
So many centuries of knots and hitches.
I would wager other names were used and lost to time for many variations.
So far it seems as though nobody has disagreed with my interpretations. However, I admit that all knots are subject to interpretation.

The anchor bend is really a hitch. Go figure :^D
The anchor "bend" is a misnomer. The "anchor hitch" is much more accurate. It is not used to connect two pieces of rope together (aka bend), but it is used to terminate a rope end onto a piece of hardware, such as a ring or carabiner most commonly (aka hitch).
 
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