Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
For some strange reason, a stomach churning amount of arborists and tree climbers refer to the "double overhand noose" AKA "Poacher's knot" as the "double fisherman knot." Why? I have absolutely no idea, but I have reached a moment in my topological career where I refuse to sit by idly and allow it to continue without at least making one public post dissuading people from using this egregious misnomer.
(Tying method for the Poacher's knot)
(Double Overhand Noose AKA Poacher's Knot)
The "double fisherman's" is a bend, which is used to connect two ropes of equal or similar diameter together securely for life support applications or to form prusik loops to create friction hitches. For some strange reason, many tree climbers and arborists have regularly referred to the Poacher's loop (AKA double overhand noose) as the "double fisherman's knot."
I recently corrected the popular YouTuber, and "certified arborist and tree climbing expert" (his words, not mine), (name redacted), in a comment for a video in which he referred to the "Poacher's knot" AKA "double overhand noose" as the "double fisherman's bend" on two separate occasions in the video and in several other videos prior to that one. Not only is the name he used for this loop knot incorrect, but he even categorizes it as a "bend," which is also incorrect. A "bend," by definition, is a category/type of knot which is used to securely connect two (or more) ropes together.
(Tying method for a Double Fisherman's "knot;" more accurately called a "bend")
(Photo of a Double Fisherman's bend)
My motivation behind correcting him was pure; I have always enjoyed his videos and learned a great deal from him early on in my career as a recreational climber. I just wanted to make sure he sounded more professional, and I simply wanted him to use the correct terminology insofar as knots are concerned. I was disappointed when he became very defensive and even took the time to attempt to find a flaw in one of my videos, accusing me of incompetence/endangering my viewers (because I used a sheet bend to form a loop below one of my friction hitches during a testing session I filmed as a personal life choice; something I never suggested anyone do, and which wasn't a part of my hitch design), and citing all of his certifications, instead of simply saying, "yes, you're correct. It is not a bend, it is a sliding loop AKA noose. Thank you for bringing this to my attention."
Don't believe me? Look through the comments section for one of his most recent videos until you see one written by @Knotorious: (link redacted).
For the record, there exists a total of ZERO loop knots that are officially/correctly named the "double fisherman's loop." Even a "double fisherman's bend" is comprised of two double overhand knots, it their strangle knot form. with each end around the opposite rope's standing part. Therefore, if you tie what (name redacted) calls a "double fisherman bend," and what 80% of every other tree climber calls a "double fisherman knot," by creating an overhand noose (aka Poacher's knot/loop), it simply cannot possibly be referred to as a double fisherman knot -- and certainly not a bend -- because it doesn't connect to ropes together.
If you're skeptical of my claim and are one of the misinformed individuals who have been calling the "Poacher's loop/double overhand noose" a "double fisherman's knot," and -- God forbid -- a "double fisherman's BEND" for any amount of time, do me a favor and Google (or any search engine of your choosing) "double fisherman loop" and try to find even one, single formal website about the knot that uses that term. You won't and you can't. So don't bother. All you'll ever find are articles, images, and instructional videos/diagrams for the BEND; the method for connecting two ropes together. I have absolutely NO IDEA how the world of arboriculture began using such an egregious misnomer to the point where (name redacted) even alleges that...
"Yes in tree care it is called the Double Fisherman's, Double Fisherman's bend or sometimes loop in other trades it's called Scaffold knot and Poachers knot. Since my channel is about proper tree climbing I use the more proper terms. Look into the International Society of Arboriculture Certified Tree worker exam and you will see the proper terms being used. I do know proper tree climbing techiuques I am an ISA Certified Tree worker and ISA Certified Tree Worker Evaluator, I've been in tree care for more than 30+ years in the Private sector for 18 1/2 years and Municipal sector for 24 years."
First of all, he failed to admit that he misclassified a "Poacher's knot/double overhand noose" as a "bend," when it's actually a sliding loop knot AKA noose. Secondly, he attempted to gaslight me into believing that, in the "tree care" world, "Double Fisherman's/Double Fisherman's bend" are correct and the "more proper terms." Then he tells me to look into the ISA exam terminology. While I have my doubts that an ISA exam makes use of a misnomer for one of arboriculture's most prominent knots, even if it does, this simply means that this misnomer is so rampant and widespread that even the ISA are teaching prospective arborists the incorrect name for this knot. And thirdly, he claims that the Scaffold knot is the same as the fictitious "Double Fisherman bend" (when referring to the Poacher's knot; a sliding loop knot), and that the Poacher's knot is the same as the Scaffold knot, which is completely erroneous. While admittedly similar, a "Poacher's knot" is a "double overhand" in noose form, while a "Scaffold knot" is a "triple overhand" in noose form.
(Tying method for the Scaffold Knot)
(Scaffold Knot AKA Triple Overhand Noose)
I am confident that if you are reading this, and if you are a tree climber/tree guy/arborist, then you have -- at some point in your career or lifetime -- tied a "Poacher's knot" AKA "double overhand noose." I also am confident that either you, or someone you know, calls this knot a "double fisherman's knot/bend."
The point of this post is very simple. I want everyone to learn from my knowledge (all of which is easily verifiable online) and to do everything in your power to put a HALT to this bizarre trend within the tree world where this knot is so commonly misnamed. Do your part and start either calling it the "Poacher's knot" or the "double overhand noose." You'll be making the world a better place, while also having the opportunity to appear more intelligent than anyone who does not, and the ability to teach others about this misnomer before it spreads even further!
Sincerely,
@Knotorious
(Tying method for the Poacher's knot)
(Double Overhand Noose AKA Poacher's Knot)
The "double fisherman's" is a bend, which is used to connect two ropes of equal or similar diameter together securely for life support applications or to form prusik loops to create friction hitches. For some strange reason, many tree climbers and arborists have regularly referred to the Poacher's loop (AKA double overhand noose) as the "double fisherman's knot."
I recently corrected the popular YouTuber, and "certified arborist and tree climbing expert" (his words, not mine), (name redacted), in a comment for a video in which he referred to the "Poacher's knot" AKA "double overhand noose" as the "double fisherman's bend" on two separate occasions in the video and in several other videos prior to that one. Not only is the name he used for this loop knot incorrect, but he even categorizes it as a "bend," which is also incorrect. A "bend," by definition, is a category/type of knot which is used to securely connect two (or more) ropes together.
(Tying method for a Double Fisherman's "knot;" more accurately called a "bend")
(Photo of a Double Fisherman's bend)
My motivation behind correcting him was pure; I have always enjoyed his videos and learned a great deal from him early on in my career as a recreational climber. I just wanted to make sure he sounded more professional, and I simply wanted him to use the correct terminology insofar as knots are concerned. I was disappointed when he became very defensive and even took the time to attempt to find a flaw in one of my videos, accusing me of incompetence/endangering my viewers (because I used a sheet bend to form a loop below one of my friction hitches during a testing session I filmed as a personal life choice; something I never suggested anyone do, and which wasn't a part of my hitch design), and citing all of his certifications, instead of simply saying, "yes, you're correct. It is not a bend, it is a sliding loop AKA noose. Thank you for bringing this to my attention."
Don't believe me? Look through the comments section for one of his most recent videos until you see one written by @Knotorious: (link redacted).
For the record, there exists a total of ZERO loop knots that are officially/correctly named the "double fisherman's loop." Even a "double fisherman's bend" is comprised of two double overhand knots, it their strangle knot form. with each end around the opposite rope's standing part. Therefore, if you tie what (name redacted) calls a "double fisherman bend," and what 80% of every other tree climber calls a "double fisherman knot," by creating an overhand noose (aka Poacher's knot/loop), it simply cannot possibly be referred to as a double fisherman knot -- and certainly not a bend -- because it doesn't connect to ropes together.
If you're skeptical of my claim and are one of the misinformed individuals who have been calling the "Poacher's loop/double overhand noose" a "double fisherman's knot," and -- God forbid -- a "double fisherman's BEND" for any amount of time, do me a favor and Google (or any search engine of your choosing) "double fisherman loop" and try to find even one, single formal website about the knot that uses that term. You won't and you can't. So don't bother. All you'll ever find are articles, images, and instructional videos/diagrams for the BEND; the method for connecting two ropes together. I have absolutely NO IDEA how the world of arboriculture began using such an egregious misnomer to the point where (name redacted) even alleges that...
"Yes in tree care it is called the Double Fisherman's, Double Fisherman's bend or sometimes loop in other trades it's called Scaffold knot and Poachers knot. Since my channel is about proper tree climbing I use the more proper terms. Look into the International Society of Arboriculture Certified Tree worker exam and you will see the proper terms being used. I do know proper tree climbing techiuques I am an ISA Certified Tree worker and ISA Certified Tree Worker Evaluator, I've been in tree care for more than 30+ years in the Private sector for 18 1/2 years and Municipal sector for 24 years."
First of all, he failed to admit that he misclassified a "Poacher's knot/double overhand noose" as a "bend," when it's actually a sliding loop knot AKA noose. Secondly, he attempted to gaslight me into believing that, in the "tree care" world, "Double Fisherman's/Double Fisherman's bend" are correct and the "more proper terms." Then he tells me to look into the ISA exam terminology. While I have my doubts that an ISA exam makes use of a misnomer for one of arboriculture's most prominent knots, even if it does, this simply means that this misnomer is so rampant and widespread that even the ISA are teaching prospective arborists the incorrect name for this knot. And thirdly, he claims that the Scaffold knot is the same as the fictitious "Double Fisherman bend" (when referring to the Poacher's knot; a sliding loop knot), and that the Poacher's knot is the same as the Scaffold knot, which is completely erroneous. While admittedly similar, a "Poacher's knot" is a "double overhand" in noose form, while a "Scaffold knot" is a "triple overhand" in noose form.
(Tying method for the Scaffold Knot)
(Scaffold Knot AKA Triple Overhand Noose)
I am confident that if you are reading this, and if you are a tree climber/tree guy/arborist, then you have -- at some point in your career or lifetime -- tied a "Poacher's knot" AKA "double overhand noose." I also am confident that either you, or someone you know, calls this knot a "double fisherman's knot/bend."
The point of this post is very simple. I want everyone to learn from my knowledge (all of which is easily verifiable online) and to do everything in your power to put a HALT to this bizarre trend within the tree world where this knot is so commonly misnamed. Do your part and start either calling it the "Poacher's knot" or the "double overhand noose." You'll be making the world a better place, while also having the opportunity to appear more intelligent than anyone who does not, and the ability to teach others about this misnomer before it spreads even further!
Sincerely,
@Knotorious
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