Singing Tree Rope Wrench Review.

[kevin bingham]

Wow, Cary, just read this. Sounds like the scenario that scares me most. To me it sounds like a stickier hitch is in order. I have found that a hitch that works one day will not work as the hitch cord dries out, gets a little crispy, older dirtier etc. Also, its not enough for the hitch to hold after being manually set, The hitch must grab on its own and also while the line is tensioned (by the Pantin). It may be a personal thing but I would never feel comfortable not being able to kick out of my Pantin. Did the wrench slide down the entire way without engaging? Scary cary, but Im glad your okay and back in the saddle again.. Please be careful everybody!

 

[DMc]

The hitch was relaxed and couldn't grab.

Heck, I've had that happen on double line more than once in my career. Each time near catastrophic too.

We got to be sharp in this climbing game or we'll die or sure.

Yes, indeed.

Dave

 

[High Scale]

Glad you are OK Cary and thanks for sharing also thanks Burnham for your wise concern.

 

[sotc]

Instead of clipping your over the shoulder cord to the rw, what if you just clipped it to your climbline below the rw? Would that advance the rw well enough?

 

[Widow Shooter]

it might Willie, I'm gonna try some options today, have a full week next week, need to be sure and have a good fail-safe in effect I'll video all of them and put them on youtube, then link it here, stay tuned for my stunningly , smoking hot visage

 

[Widow Shooter]

Wow, Cary, just read this. Sounds like the scenario that scares me most. To me it sounds like a stickier hitch is in order. I have found that a hitch that works one day will not work as the hitch cord dries out, gets a little crispy, older dirtier etc. Also, its not enough for the hitch to hold after being manually set, The hitch must grab on its own and also while the line is tensioned (by the Pantin). It may be a personal thing but I would never feel comfortable not being able to kick out of my Pantin. Did the wrench slide down the entire way without engaging? Scary cary, but Im glad your okay and back in the saddle again.. Please be careful everybody!

yeah, it slid the whole way Kevin.

What hitch do you use? I was thinking on a Marchand, lots 'o wraps. but I want something that will also let me climb aggressive and responsive.

and locking the pantin off would only be for long ascents , especially exposed ones. Once aloft and in working position, I would take the biner off the pantin and go to town

 

[kevin bingham]

I like a VT 4:2 done with a shorter cord that is wrapped tight. Like I have to struggle a little to finish it off. The longer hitch cords seem to loosen up more, build up slack within the hitch during ascents.

 

[Widow Shooter]

I have some shorter OP cords, I'm gonna try the 4:2 this afternoon.

 

[PCTREE]

Hey Kevin, Im not trying to be a dick and I commend you in having the audacity to further the development of rope access techniques. However the more I think about this the more I truely hope you have product liability insurance on this device. I understand that it is marked "NOT FOR LIFE SUPPORT" but Im sure when some scum bucket lawyer has a client with a broken back due to his mistake, he is going to still try to sue you. Kinda costly lawyering up for those cases. I had to sell the Wraptors for a year without insurance and was very worried, now Im worried that our insurance only covers $2M per case which has to pay for litigation also.

I love the freedom the US gives you to strike out on a project at your whim but man the lawyers are really making it tough on the little guy....

 

[Widow Shooter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZfHgHBV11k a few things I changed, and I found an unspliced piece of OP, tied a 4:2 and it grabs perfectly.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

That's a scary slide. I'm glad you are well enough.
I want to try the RW too, but I don't ended yet the "thinking before action".

I am wondering why the rope wrench did not slow him down more like an 8 would..

Careful, a 8 doesn't slow anything ( or so few) if you don't grab the running part of the rope. The RW alone is worse than the 8 on this point because it has less friction surface.
Enough to help the hitch, but not enough to play the role of a descender.

Hopefully, the burning of the trousers (sorry for your man-parts) added some friction in the system and did make the RW actually rubed hard on the rope and slowed the fall.

naw, it was my fault, I did not have the lanyard near tight enough so it was not tending up where it should be. If it had of been at the right level, it would have engaged right away like it always does. nothing is perfect, not SRT not DRT

Careful (second and most important one) :
Your over shoulder lanyard is just here to help the wrench + hitch sliding up, not at all to keep the hitch ready to grab. The both are totally different (and separated) functions. If the hitch didn't grab the rope at the beginning, it's because it was loosened. The position of the RW + pulley + hitch, high or low, can't modify the tightness in the hitch.
The hitch grabs the rope only because his top rubs a little on the rope. So when the lower part slides down, the top moves a little later, stretches the hitch and tightens on the rope.
If the hitch's top is loosened, it doesn't rub on the rope and can't stretch the whole hitch. In this case, you have to hold the hitch's top to give it some friction in order it can begin to work. Otherwise... sadly, you know the rest of the story.

Look closer in the mechanic of this system, I wouldn't you miss something or you take the wrong conclusion, as it could beat you again in the same way.

 

[stig]

I have been thinking the same thing.

If he hadn't put his balls to the rope, it would have been the end of him.

Maybe we have the first climbing system that is gender specific, safety wise.

 

[DMc]

.... and hand over handing DRT, and you get some slack? it would not pass the whistle all the time either, yes?

Yes. Not only is this true, it is a major flaw in a low-set, slack-tended hitch. I know what I just said will cause more than a few Hitchclimber users to suck lemons but, it is what it is. Advancing a hitch ( cord or mechanical ) from below, on each stroke or adjustment is far safer. With the proper setup it can be just as fast. Go with the Uni and you can add no back set as another plus.
Life is full of choices. Knowing what you use, and what it can and can not do, is the first step in an informed system choice.

Dave

 

[Widow Shooter]

Clipping into the loop on the hitchclimber works much better and advances the rig from underneath, I'm thinking it will work out fine

 

[Jack]

Clipping into the loop on the hitchclimber works much better and advances the rig from underneath, I'm thinking it will work out fine

No doubt, you're one tough Canuck. Thanks for sharing your experience. I was thinking, clipping to the tether was risky. That little loop looks risky, too. Could you rearrange stuff and clip directly to the hitchclimber, you know, one less link in the chain, and all that?

 

[Peter]

Just read through the whole sack melting discussion. Glad your ok.

It seems to me to reinforce what Burnham has been saying all along, that the hitch must be capable of holding the climber's full body weight on its own, without assistance from a RW or a Pantin.

The Pantin is not designed to be life support, and for good reason. Hanging upside down from one foot is not my idea of a good time.

I have had a similar experience with a VT on a DrDt system, and it was completely my fault for setting the VT too loose in an attempt to improve slack tending. You never forget that sickening feeling when you realise that your hitch is not going to grab, as you tumble backwards and head first down a stem.........

 

[gf beranek]

Arborplex, remember that stuff? If you didn't snug your hitch up with that stuff, old school style, and bear weight on it to make it grab, down you go. Arborplex was stiff/ springy like poly. In fact there was poly or some similar fiber in the core.

You just got to make sure your hitch is set to grab. No matter the system.

 

[Widow Shooter]

No doubt, you're one tough Canuck. Thanks for sharing your experience. I was thinking, clipping to the tether was risky. That little loop looks risky, too. Could you rearrange stuff and clip directly to the hitchclimber, you know, one less link in the chain, and all that?

I think the loop will be fine, it isn't a large amount of stress there. I tried rearranging some stuff,but it rides best using the middle hole for your rig. I have a real tiny keychain biner that might work too.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Cary,
glad you're okay enough, and thanks for sharing.

Seems like a loose vt and aggressive climbing are contributing factors.


At the Aerial Rescue Event at the last Puget Sound Regional TCC, a climber wasn't getting good purchase on ascent with the RW (aggressive climbing and vt). Looked like a too-long hitch cord, and maybe using a DdRT-compatible tied VT without that extra wrap that can seem to help SRT.

 

[Widow Shooter]

RE:

Cary,
glad you're okay enough, and thanks for sharing.

Seems like a loose vt and aggressive climbing are contributing factors.



You are right on that one SST, it was a loose VT and aggressive climbing that were the main factors.

Kevin suggests sit and stand, take your time and be sure the hitch is tight and catches.

I think the type of cord may contribute to a safer climb too; for instance, beeline 8mm, which I love dearly, tends to be soft and a bit mushy, and remember, while being tended with an over-the-shoulder system, it pushes up into the wrench.
I noticed the other day that after a long ascent, my hitch was deformed to the point that I had to lanyard in and re-tie it, again, this is a characteristic of the softer cordage.

I'm thinking OP 8mm, or even ultratech 8mm would be better, since they are stiffer and stay rounder.
Heat resistance qualities are not as crucial while climbing on the RW since it takes over a large portion of the friction duties from the hitch.

You can do some crazy long descents/swing-descents and not even hardly mark the hitch up

The one thing that has bugged me a bit , is while working on tall trees with not much canopy, it is a lot of up and down.
clipping the lanyard over and the foot ascender all the time can be tiring and in certain places, awkward to use.

While talking to Kevin on FB about this, he mentioned using a 3:1 with a revolver I have used that in the past for DRT, but it never dawned on me to use it SRT...DUH......


I set it up in my backyard in a 90' locust,
climbed up carefully using the sit and stand method and with my pantin locked in place with a biner, ascended easily and efficiently to 70', popped a revolver over a suitable crotch, clipped my tail thru, descended down to 20 feet, then with little effort, hand over handed back to the 70' mark; stopping on occasion to be sure the hitch grabbed( which it did, flawlessly I may add) right away.

This advantage will make all the difference in doing removals or prunes on tall trees where a lot of up and down is needed.

To be sure of the ease of one system VS another, I rigged a DdRT rig on a pulleysaver, climbed both for about 15 minutes, the SRT/RW rig was definitely easier and faster to climb on, and a couple people who have tried it say the same thing to a word, " This actually feels smoother than DdRT; and that, says a lot to a working climber

So in short, a controlled ascent with a suitable hitch tied with a firm cord, locking the pantin off for long ascents, and the added advantage of a 3:1 with a revolver for up/down; all work in union to make a very pleasing climbing system that will make you more efficient.

 

[Widow Shooter]

hmm, that quote got messed up a bit?

anyways, here are a couple of pics of the redirect

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Cary,

Thanks for all the information and time invested in tweeking the system for max production.

I think/ wonder if the "long ascents" is something that bothers people concerned about these tweaks. Can you clarify? Is it something to the effect of "sprinting" up the rope and not checking the hitch/ wrench setting situation after every advance, whereas while working you might be frequently checking that the wrench/ hitch is set?

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Did you have this part of your set up engaged Cary? The tether to the tether. Or set up similar with your flip line?

Maybe already mentioned. Seems like the lanyard over the shoulder to the RW tether wants to disengage the RW, possibly holding it in an "open" position rather than "grabbing" position.

 

[Widow Shooter]

I now clip it to a loop and micro biner in the top hole on the HC pulley, and SST, yes, exactly, sprinting up the rope ridiculously fast and failing to check the hitch after each advance was the issue.

complacency really, and this is a dangerous animal in our game.

 

[treesmith]

Well, now that the smoke's cleared and the pain is gone (I hope), were you wearing a helmet cam Cary? It'd make a dynamic video for "Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire".......