Singing Tree Rope Wrench Review.

[Widow Shooter]

yep, but with the flipline thru the wrench instead

 

[CurSedVoyce]

IMO... having the over the shoulder clipped onto your tether to the RW looks like it could pull on the tether and create less friction by straightening/lifting the wrench should you fall backward. Seeing the tether is also linked into your prussic tending pulley, the pulley could also be pulled upward pushing against the prussic causing it to slacken and tend forward, no grab. JMO mind you... Looks like it can work against you.

 

[sotc]

I guess i'm still not understanding how this happened and I have yet to try mine out. So if your depending on the pantin and have it backed up, what is to keep you from flipping over if you lose your balance and hanging from you foot which will probably feel worse than your sack does?

 

[Widow Shooter]

the lanyard over the shoulder and clipped in will keep you upright, you just make sure it is snug. and Stephen, yeah, I used to clip it into the pulley, it is harder to get in and out, but I may go back to that method.

 

[sotc]

So a back up plan would be to loop the standing end of you rope over your other shoulder?

In all seriousness, can you post a pic of how things were positioned so we can see the failure?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I drew the motion with arrows to illustrate my thinking.
And a picture that Willie has suggested would be most appreciated.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Damn Cary, good to hear you didn't die! It a good thing you weren't climbing naked!

 

[Widow Shooter]

you guys..... I mean DRT can fail right? what if a hitch fails to grab? you will fall just like on SRT. And yeah Willie, I'll take a pic tomorrow and post it.

 

[sotc]

I suppose it can but i've never had a hitch fail to grab on Ddrt. Maybe for 6" or so, thats why i'm haveing a hard time grasping what happened.

 

[Widow Shooter]

I'll PM you a private pic if you need Willie ;P

 

[sotc]

Of what, your new rope tattoo? I'll pass, thanks

 

[Widow Shooter]

I look at it like this, it is a young, new system, there will be mistakes made and hopefully, we all can learn from them.

 

[sotc]

Yeah, but i'd rather learn from your mistake!

 

[pigwot]

Just saw this thread.
Cary, I am really glad to hear that the incident was a wake-up call and we aren't holding a 'wake'.

I hope you don't mind a few questions and comments:

Were you using the removable latch pin on the RW? (That is 5/16" diameter and may well not provide the same friction on the rope as the full diameter original bolt).

Were you using a fairly 'tight' hitch such as a Michoacan or a somewhat more 'slack' hitch such as a VT? (I've taken to tying my hitch with an extra wrap - practically no slack so it takes some effort to go up the line, but grabs immediately, no questions asked).

What rope/hitch cord/hitch were you using? (We all know that some rope/hitch cord combinations work really well, and others are sloppy and do not grab well).


The lanyard over the shoulder to self-tend could become a liability if it gets tangled and/or in the way of the RW's ability to pull down into the 'active' position needed to provide drag.

Perhaps a third device (Pantin, Hitch, + Ascender) seems like a very good idea for ascending. Once working with hitch set, or setting and minding the hitch while descending I feel really good about the RW. I still feel a little vulnerable ascending without an ascender.

I have been using a Croll on an upper harness for ascending while I am on the RW.
At first just because the RW was new and though I wouldn't say 'unproven' - we can probably agree it doesn't have the millions of hours of use that other systems have had - now it has become routine.

Again, I am glad you survived this.

"Millisecond", "In an Instant", "Without Warning", "Suddenly", and I know we all could add more - are terms we read in articles and announcements of injuries and accident and struck-by reports... and deaths.

Stay frightened; always check and re-check, and in each tree see mortality in its bark, taste demise in its sawdust, sense the voracious appetite of gravity, and fear the wrath of an instant's lapse of awareness.

Be safe.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

HA! @ Willie.

 

[Widow Shooter]

smartassed punk

 

[sotc]

I suppose thats just a side benefit to the serious part of the comment!

 

[Widow Shooter]

Just saw this thread.
Cary, I am really glad to hear that the incident was a wake-up call and we aren't holding a 'wake'.

I hope you don't mind a few questions and comments:

Were you using the removable latch pin on the RW? (That is 5/16" diameter and may well not provide the same friction on the rope as the full diameter original bolt).

Were you using a fairly 'tight' hitch such as a Michoacan or a somewhat more 'slack' hitch such as a VT? (I've taken to tying my hitch with an extra wrap - practically no slack so it takes some effort to go up the line, but grabs immediately, no questions asked).

What rope/hitch cord/hitch were you using? (We all know that some rope/hitch cord combinations work really well, and others are sloppy and do not grab well).


The lanyard over the shoulder to self-tend could become a liability if it gets tangled and/or in the way of the RW's ability to pull down into the 'active' position needed to provide drag.

Perhaps a third device (Pantin, Hitch, + Ascender) seems like a very good idea for ascending. Once working with hitch set, or setting and minding the hitch while descending I feel really good about the RW. I still feel a little vulnerable ascending without an ascender.

I have been using a Croll on an upper harness for ascending while I am on the RW.
At first just because the RW was new and though I wouldn't say 'unproven' - we can probably agree it doesn't have the millions of hours of use that other systems have had - now it has become routine.

Again, I am glad you survived this.

"Millisecond", "In an Instant", "Without Warning", "Suddenly", and I know we all could add more - are terms we read in articles and announcements of injuries and accident and struck-by reports... and deaths.

Stay frightened; always check and re-check, and in each tree see mortality in its bark, taste demise in its sawdust, sense the voracious appetite of gravity, and fear the wrath of an instant's lapse of awareness.

Be safe.

was using that pin you sent, yes, but it seemed to be working fine.

VT, with an extra wrap, usually use 3 wraps, 3 braids, this was 4 wraps, 3 braids.

and yes, it seems the lanyard over the shoulder can be flawed, and for long, say over 10 foot ascents, a secondary might be good

thanks Pat.

 

[Widow Shooter]

which reminds me Pat, can you PM me your address? the envelope got pitched...

 

[treesandsurf]

When I first started reading this post I kept asking myself, wait what's a pantin again cause I thought it was a foot ascender?

I totally agree with Burnham, any climbing system that relies on a foot ascender as a backup is just whack.

jp

 

[quabinclimber]

Agreed. Glad you walked away from this. There is something fundamentally wrong with you life support system, not your ascent assisst system. The pantin is not life support backed uP or not. Step back and relook at your set up. to continue to climb on a system that you took a fall on is insane!

Thank you for posting and being the brunt of this eye opener. I also climb on a wrench and will be doing so serious slow and slow tests to confirm my comfort in the wrench system.

Do you feel the wrench slowed the speed of your fall? Even though the wrench says not for life support I stand by opinion that the wrench is Part of a life support system.

 

[Widow Shooter]

it definitely slowed the speed of the fall, for sure

 

[bstewert]

I don't understand what happened either. Pics would be helpful, if possible.

Having the Pantin "backed up" is an odd term to me. I think it should be "locked off." To me, a "backup" is what saves you should the first system fail. I don't get why you feel locking the Pantin is so important. To me, the little hole for a biner is there just to keep the rope from annoyingly coming out, like it does sometimes. Nothing close to life support.

Please re-explain, and thanks for sharing this incident!

 

[treesandsurf]

Forgot to mention in my post, glad you're okay widow shooter!

jp

 

[Widow Shooter]

I don't understand what happened either. Pics would be helpful, if possible.

Having the Pantin "backed up" is an odd term to me. I think it should be "locked off." To me, a "backup" is what saves you should the first system fail. I don't get why you feel locking the Pantin is so important. To me, the little hole for a biner is there just to keep the rope from annoyingly coming out, like it does sometimes. Nothing close to life support.



Please re-explain, and thanks for sharing this incident!

locked off is a more correct term, yes.

And basically, Kevin says in his videos and with the rope wrench instructions, make sure you use a hitch that grabs reliably and all the time, really I see not a huge amount of difference here in the concept of a hitch failing to grab; SRT or DRT, you are going down...

Stephen's photo analysis shows it all pretty clear, even having the snap clipped into the wrench, once you are leaned back a bit, it can fail to engage thus creating a semi-controlled fall. It was still on the rope creating friction, it was just not in the best position to lock up and grab.

But as I stated : THE HITCH WAS BEING TENDED TOO LOW BY MY DOING TO ALLOW IT TO GRAB THE ROPE FAST ENOUGH so the wrench is a great system, but like any other system, we need to be diligent in it's application.