Prevention of Milking; Are There Consequences?

[Knotorious]

Short story shorter, I bought 150' of Teufelberger Drenaline half a year ago and I've been climbing on it pretty regularly. I had Wesspur install a sewn eye on one end and on the other end I hand sewed a secure whipping using waxed twine. My understanding is that Drenaline tends to milk out its sheath more than others. But obviously, with both ends secured, nothing is going to move. I haven't noticed any loss of performance with my devices (mostly Rope Runner Pro). Am I going to eventually regret not letting this rope milk out as the sheath starts to loosen up over time? Anyone else have experience doing the same thing? I usually let my ropes milk out, but this one I wasn't thinking. Should I cut the whipping off and let it milk? Or does it not really matter? Everything is working beautifully, so I'm afraid of messing with my rope's Zen. Quite the conundrum haha! *Sarcasm*

 

[friedrich]

maybe they fixed the issues a bit but my almost 5 year old drenaline milked alot. it was‘nt a big deal with my bulldog bone but a hitch would‘nt move as the cover got bunched up so much.

if i were you i would cut off the whipping and let it milk (and milk it a couple of times)

greetings

 

[Knotorious]

I'll definitely consider letting it milk out. I'll see if anyone else has any input as well. I think they must have fixed that issue because my cover doesn't ever bunch up and I whip locked that sh!t as soon as I got it (stupid). You all know I love and use hitches and I haven't seen any bunching.

 

[gf beranek]

You'll never gain full strength of a double braid rope with excess sheath. Be it for rigging or for climbing.

You can preempt most of the problems of the sheath bunching up simply by milking out the excess before you even use the rope.

Tie the rope to anything, and then pull on the sheath, I advise with gloved hands, for the full length of the rope. 3-4 times. Pull it and squeeze it hard and you can pull up to 2 feet of excess sheath beyond core. for a 120 foot rope.

After which you'll have a good rope.

 

[Knotorious]

You'll never gain full strength of a double braid rope with excess sheath. Be it for rigging or for climbing.

You can preempt most of the problems of the sheath bunching up simply by milking out the excess before you even use the rope.

Tie the rope to anything, and then pull on the sheath, I advise with gloved hands, for the full length of the rope. 3-4 times. Pull it and squeeze it hard and you can pull up to 2 feet of excess sheath beyond core. for a 120 foot rope.

After which you'll have a good rope.

Aaaaah, that first part makes a lot of sense and that third part is an excellent suggestion. I think I'll do this today since it's way too hot to climb.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

As for splicing, save your hands by tying a prussik to milk the rope horizontally. I don't think that you'll have much a problem to find one.
On my 5/8" rigging rope, I got 3 feet of excess. It's weird to feel the rope like inflated and it kills the confidence to master the friction.
I did get stuck on a new climb line. My thinking was that the rope will milk gently during the day to day use and I'll cut the excess after some trees. Nope, stuck at the first serious tree !

 

[Knotorious]

I ventured out into the 110 degree F heat and milked the entire length of my rope about four or five times. I'm so glad @Marc-Antoine brought up the idea of using a friction hitch instead of my gloved hands. I did try it with my hands at first, but all of my gloves have that nitrile grippy stuff on the palms and it was generating a lot of friction. I first tried milking with a regular six coil Prusik, but then I ended up trying out a Distel and that worked much better. I also found that it helps to pull with my enclosed fist (holding the hitch aroud the rope) in a right angle, perpendicular to the ground, while keeping the rope horizontal to it. This helped maximize the amount of sheath/cover I was pulling through and over the core.

Eventually, I ended up with only about a foot of sheath with a 150 foot rope. I was expecting more, but that explains why I hadn't had any real issues. The cover is now noticeably tighter and I'm looking forward to seeing how my devices perform the next time I get a chance to climb. Do you think I should continue to leave that one end open or can I now proceed to whip lock it? I like the ends of pretty much everything to be whipped. When it comes to ropes, this is mostly because it helps me to manipulate the ends through knots and devices because it adds firmness to it. It also looks really good.

Anyways, thanks everyone for all of your help and insight. Problem officially solved!

 

[Burnham]

I might descend on it a time or three before whipping the end...as much of the full length as you can arrange. Full body weight will pull on the sheath more strongly than you ever could just milking with your hands or a hitch while standing on the ground.

 

[friedrich]

no need to whip it, electrical tape works good enough and you don‘t loose the ability to milk..

 

[lxskllr]

A question that may not be answerable(by people here)... Why do ropes milk? Or more accurately, why aren't they made to not milk? Kernmantle ropes seem very resistant to milking despite the similarity to double braid. A notable exception is Drenaline, which also aims to be an 'everything' rope, from mrs to mechanical devices. Is there something about a loose cover that makes it more desirable? Of my kernmantle ropes, the Drenaline is my least favorite, and it's the least kernmantly rope of the group. The others are very tight and cable-like, which may not be to everyone's taste.

 

[Knotorious]

A question that may not be answerable(by people here)... Why do ropes milk? Or more accurately, why aren't they made to not milk? Kernmantle ropes seem very resistant to milking despite the similarity to double braid. A notable exception is Drenaline, which also aims to be an 'everything' rope, from mrs to mechanical devices. Is there something about a loose cover that makes it more desirable? Of my kernmantle ropes, the Drenaline is my least favorite, and it's the least kernmantly rope of the group. The others are very tight and cable-like, which may not be to everyone's taste.

I believe it has to do with how the core and cover are woven/braided differently. The core is a much tighter braid and so the cover tends to lengthen at a faster rate. I personally love the Drenaline because it is much more supple than my other double braids/kernmantles. It does tend to flatten out in my Rope Runner Pro much more than my other ropes; in other words, it doesn't hold its shape as well.

 

[Brocky]

I think milking a double braid weakens it to some extent. The cover and core are designed to work together until their break strength, they both stretch the same amount, to theoretically break at the same time. If you take some of the stretch out of the cover by milking, it will break before the core which still has the ability to stretch some more.

 

[lxskllr]

That would be a good explanation of why they don't premilk it from the factory.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

But in the splicing instructions, each one (at least those which I saw) says to equate the tension/length between the core and the sheath. That means that from the factory, the rope isn't made in its stable state. More work is needed for the rope to perform correctly. Basically, the fibers don't have taken their place yet and some internal adjustments are required.

 

[lxskllr]

Why do suppose they don't do it at the factory? Seems like it would be pretty easy to mechanize as it comes off the line.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Maybe just to avoid to deal with the waste if made after the braiding. 2% in the trashcan would look bad in the balance sheet.
I'm sure that the parameters of the braiding can be set to avoid the looseness, but I guess that some slack is needed to braid the rope in a supple form. It would be very interesting to know the details of the different fabrications.

 

[Knotorious]

Yikes. Now I can't tell if I did a good thing or a bad thing! =-/

I guess I just won't fall haha

 

[flushcut]

As for splicing, save your hands by tying a prussik to milk the rope horizontally. I don't think that you'll have much a problem to find one.
On my 5/8" rigging rope, I got 3 feet of excess. It's weird to feel the rope like inflated and it kills the confidence to master the friction.
I did get stuck on a new climb line. My thinking was that the rope will milk gently during the day to day use and I'll cut the excess after some trees. Nope, stuck at the first serious tree !

I had a 9/16” Sterling Atlas that milked 3 feet.

 

[Knotorious]

Considering so many people report that their rope organically milks, I think it's okay that I removed less than one foot of cover. It probably would have milked on its own had I let it. At least that's what I'm telling myself!

 

[flushcut]

Every rope that has a cove and a cord will milk over use at one time or another.

 

[Treeaddict]

My 150’ blue moon is the first line I purchased and has never milked- yet
My 200’ Hyperclimb cold milked about 10” in the first couple weeks
My 100’ Hyperclimb hot has not milked yet

🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

[gf beranek]

I'm not familiar with all the new ropes today. The specs keep changing. What's new?

Not that long ago, I recall, Bailey's had their own brand of double-braid rope called "Black Max". I think it was a "Buccaneer Rope" I swear, you could milk 2 to 3 feet out of that rope before it come firm. And until then it could present issues in the tree.

Cheap rope. Just meeting arborist grade specs. They sold a ton of it. For utility rope, tying down stuff, light rigging. it was perfect. And in a pinch you could climb with.

 

[lxskllr]

For just climbing, I LOVE ½" KM3. Nice and fat, wears great, and you can use just about any kind of hitch on it, in any size cord, and it'll work well enough. Problem is it's pretty heavy. It also can't be hitched to itself in a traditional mrs, but I've always used a split tail. I've been using 11mm kernmaster special static lately. It seems picky about everything, is very skinny, but it's very light, which is nice manipulating in-tree, and just carrying around.

 

[Burnham]

Always there are tradeoffs.

Samson Blue Streak is hard to beat on many levels, but light it is not. Still probably my favorite ever.

 

[lxskllr]

I like that a lot for mrs. It's got a spring to it I enjoy for moving rope but pisses me off with srs. I like static rope to be cable-like, but the spring seems to be easier on the joints when hauling yourself up a tree. Very durable too. Makes a great lanyard.