Managing employee ADD, Stoner-ADD in the workplace.

MasterBlaster said:
I'm like a dog watching television here...
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Oh man, I wish this site had a 'like' button. I would be all over it!

Mick! said:
Sean, you would drive me up the wall with your conduct if I worked for you (not now, as a younger man)

A little notebook and pen? That’d be straight through the chipper.
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I, have actually not one thing to add to this post.

How to motivate? In early years I used a percentage of the job. The idea was if the job was not done correctly, nobody got paid.
Got complicated, with some having more experience, they got a higher percentage, others just starting out, got a lesser percentage. Had to go to a math professor to learn the algorithm.

Bottom line, worthless.
 
Attendance bonus?

Seems like the Good ones just keep going onwards...
Bummer.

Here.... you can make 25/hr cash as a bar back...
 
Few things i would like to add...

1. I don't care that weed is legal in your state, it's still illegal nationwide according to the federal government. If your ground guy wants to be a union carpenter, he will not be able to smoke weed. If they (carpenters union) are letting them in, and letting them work with weed on a piss test i would be absolutely astonished. I don't want to hear about people arguing this, i agree the law is stupid. But on that level of construction 100 percent drug free is an absolute requirement. His future is completely shut if I'm right, so that will likely have to end for him.

2. You are paying a good wage, and should expect professionalism at that level. You are actually close enough to almost just go with union laborers, and put this whole thing with shitty employees behind you. You would simply call the hall and tell them why you shitcanned the employee, and the hall will deal with him accordingly. Your expectations are not out of line at all, in fact i would almost say you are borderline too lenient.

3. I'm sure you already do this, but by making ppe a requirement (you will have to supply of course), you set a mindset that here we are professionals doing a dangerous job. A yellow vest, hardhat, ear protection, and safety glasses at all times is non negotiable requirement when you get out of the truck. Cones around trucks are the next step, maybe even wheel chocks. Proper signage. Caution tape possibility. Have an employee saftey handbook, and have rules on it. A verbal warning, written warning, time off then termination. Some offenses are instant time off, while you investigate wtf happened, then possible termination. These are the safety rules to make sure everyone goes home in one piece at the end of the day, it may sound excessive but this is exactly how it's done in union construction.

A job hazard analysis (jha) is filled out and signed by everyone present at the beginning of every day, and every different jobsite. You use this to highlight safety concerns, especially specific ones to the site that you are in and the tasks at hand. You have scheduled breaks, and a scheduled lunch. You review the jha briefly after lunch to make sure everyone is on the same page moving forward and any safety concerns are addressed. If a near miss ever occurs, work stops completely and you deal with it, with a meeting. You also use the jha meetings to assign tasks and work assignments. Even though they likely never change, this is your time to discuss the plan and the guys to ask questions. If anyone feels unsafe at any point, they have the authority to stop work to address the problem. This gives them ownership in the responsibility of everyone's safety, and makes then understand they are an essential part of the team.

I understand that to most everyone here, this seems like so above and beyond crazy. But this is exactly what osha is looking for when they ask if you have a written safety policy. And this is exactly what you will find at a construction site. I assure you, tree work is not intrinsically safer than construction, but it is statically because this is exactly how safety and work is approached. This is of course not even including the osha 10 or 30 class that has to be renewed every so many years. Doing this will set the stage for the expected professionalism that you are seeking.

4. Phones are only to be used at break. Distracted workers are more likely to be involved in an accident, and phones distract people. If someone is hurt on your job, your company will be forced to pay for it. You no longer will assume this responsibility when your workers are voluntarily distracting themselves with non work activities. If someone needs to reach them they call you. Verbal, written, time off, termination.

5. Company tools and equipment are how everyone makes money. Their careful use is just as much the employees meal ticket as it is yours. Stuff breaks, but careless use demands penalties, because it's not fair to anyone else there. You invested a bunch of money into your business, it is only fair that all who profit from it care as much as you do. Verbal, written, time off, termination.

6. You are doing a very dangerous job all day, every day. Your customers know this at least on some level. They also know that hiring tree work is expensive, likely affecting their standard of living for the month to cover the cost. When they see professionals dedicated to safety and a successful job, they are put at ease with everything. When they see a crew doing a safety walkthrough before they start, cones on trucks, road signs out, high visibility vests or shirts, hardhats on at all times, clean work areas for trip hazard mitigation, cones to mark hazards and valuables when operating machinery they will instantly understand the cost was well worth it. You will get more work because of it.

I understand taking the time to do things to this level costs money. But what about the savings from no longer breaking shit and possible injury. The biggest construction companies on earth do exactly what I'm saying, because it's cheaper in the long run. Your new hires will be indoctrinated in your culture of safety and professionalism from the start, but your existing guys might fight it a bit. If you word everything in the form of safety, clients expectations, and a fair workplace (where everyone will profit by continued work) you will remove their resistance. If they just won't get on board, you don't need them and they are holding you back.
 
My number 1 gets 50/hr... him and family full benefits and dental.... I give home a housing stipend to deal with SF BS... positives IS I can hand him the phone....

You gotta pay fat to get the good stuff.
 
When I was a roustabout offshore, there was NO friggin' around and rarely any second chances. They simply told you to pack your shit and wait in your room for the helo.
 
I sure don't get why this is such a difficult thing for your business, Sean. Blaming legal cannabis for your problems with employees is a lame game. Get over that. Potheads have been a drain on any valid business since before you were born. That is NOT the problem you have, as I see it.

If you're willing to pay $30/hr., then why deal with anyone under that threshold? Make a fat pay package offer and you'll get better applicants...screw the rest. As I have posted before regarding evaluating the competency of contract fallers, as an example...it isn't hard at all to weed out the culls within a couple of hours, if you are competent yourself. As you clearly are.

I'm kinda with Mick...you seem to have a revolving, repeating unhappy employee pattern. I think you might need to look closer to home for the root of the problem. Pay more to start, ask more from minute one, fire more faster if there is the tiniest missed beat. Passing out notepads and pens to druggies is a fools errand. Trying to train ADD incompetents to function is not you responsibility.

IMO, it's your workforce management skills that seem to need work, brother...looking from the outside, admittedly. I have been wrong more than once, :D.
 
:D. I've known many a regular cannabis user who was a responsible, show up early every day, hard working employee. "Potheads" are a different critter, ime...sorry if the term rubs you the wrong way. If you have a better way to phrase it, please share. I'm open to improved language on the subject.
 
With ADD it's about keeping them engaged and having fun so to speak without compromising safety. ADHD it's more of they aren't doing what they enjoy their better off finding something else. I have ADD and have been medicated with concerta for quite a while. I have mates that have Asha that are better on the tools that in a classroom learning Shakespeare it's definitely hard trying to manage someone with ADHD than a person without and to a degree it's also how well you can communicate with them. It's like with everyone learning difficultie or not if you overload them with information then they are going to forget things
 
I was a Snowmaker for Ten Winters , most of the crew actually smoked pot on the clock , we never had the issues you have described. Of course we had people that sucked at hard work and either quit or got fired. No Fenke Fenke is how I roll.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
Wood Collector said:
With ADD it's about keeping them engaged and having fun so to speak without compromising safety. ADHD it's more of they aren't doing what they enjoy their better off finding something else. I have ADD and have been medicated with concerta for quite a while. I have mates that have Asha that are better on the tools that in a classroom learning Shakespeare it's definitely hard trying to manage someone with ADHD than a person without and to a degree it's also how well you can communicate with them.




It's like with everyone learning difficultie or not if you overload them with information then they are going to forget things
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And so what strategies/ tools/ methods will help someone incapable of remembering a number of things in a row because of how their brain is wired.

A lot of times people don't know what every tree tool is called. If I need to send someone way up the hill to the truck, and need them to get, first time,

1. the black and green throw cube...driver's shelf in canopy
2. Pole hook with extension, passenger side shelf, up top
3. Loppers, passenger side, on the bed of the truck with the long-handled tools.


I thought at some point in the past, they developed some kinda system for storing information outside of one's head. Pretty sure successful people use it all the time. I've never heard of a successful person who doesn't store some of the stuff in their head outside their head.




Laborers will not be rocket scientists. I can either blame laborers for their shortcomings, or help them develop skills for this.

P.S., I know a fair bit more than average about these types of conditions. I've seen teenagers, like 13, 14 years old, survive and thrive in the wilderness (under guidance) coming from the city. I'm not talking survival stuff, but month-long backpacking trips ordered by the court.

My nephew has ADD/ ADHD and a whole host of other shit. My brother and wife expect that he should function with normal guidance when he is brain-damaged from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Cocaine, from his birth mother being an addict. He can either find, with or without help, strategies to deal with things, or be f&cking failure in life. I've thought of bringing him out, before I understood what was really going on, and how limited his capacity is.





A funny thing, when the notebook comes out, the stuff on the list gets done, AND we both have a written list of accomplishments. I know what is/ ISN'T done. I have a list to work off of. I write lists all day. Am I forgetting things left, right, and center. NO, of course not, I'm using my, well not my, tools.


I usually have 20-30 things written on my lists. Seems like that helps get things done.


Perhaps another strategy is more forced breaks. I may need to sit down with him/ them (even though I'm not tired, since I work as efficiently as possibly, almost all the time, and my fitness is great,why would I waste my effort).
My guys are instructed to take breaks any time. None are lazy, so I don't have to worry about the effort level, just the application of it. "Eat before you get hungry, drink before you get thirsty, take a break before you're tired". I ask that they check in about it. "Is this a good time for a quick break?"
I might say "Can it wait 3 minutes to rig this piece, then I"ll go do other stuff (reset my ropes, presling a buncha speedline slings, etc)".
OR usually "Take as long as you want to take care of yourself. Eat, Drink, make a call during a planned break. I'll be ready with a plan when you're ready to hit it. No Pressure. The more I set up for efficiency, the less work for all of us."



My strategy starts with a simple overview of the whole work site and project
"prune, remove, cones on the sprinkler heads for visibility, cones under the powerlines there, Septic system is here---no machines, Remove that tree, Canopy raise. chip onsite. 16" rounds. Our emergency exit plan is to have the truck pointed out, unobstructed, keys in the ignition."

Then, before each new task, especially with changing gears from one task to another, where I say, "Let's change gears, now that area is in the shade, and we are getting in the sun."
What, when, where, why, how.
(strategy, work things to your advantage, don't work in the sun from 12-4, if you can avoid it in the summer.)

We go over the basics, "I'll set a rigging point there, over the dropzone where we parked upon arrival. We will lower right to the tray. One guy is going to be primarily the rope-man. One guy is going to be primarily the saw-man. Decide (or I delegate) and make a plan."

Before each rig, I explain my cut, what they should expect and what they should do.

"This is birch, so it will peel-cut over. When there is slack, pull it in. Then when you're ready, I'll cut it free with very little loading. You two communicate to lay it right into the tray/ dropzone."

I expect something like. "Peel it over. Keep pulling in the slack. You'll cut it free. We'll land it right here, (Like a Boss!)"

I'd sold the removal job across the street without a price, practically, for a root-diseased hemlock, after the neighbor was taking pictures and impressed with our communication (and super low impact in the anal-gardener's house). I relay these anecdotes to the crew, "the neighbor was so impressed by how we worked as a team and communicated, and protected everything, when there was little place to work. She said she could hear the countdowns to landing. She wants US to do her work.


How stupid is it for the guy to lower a limb into a crotch or all the way to the ground when it need to stay clear of the ground to be swung away? Frequently, I self-lower, to make it simple, easy, safe, efficient. I can't tell, looking down a rope, through a branch to tell how much more to lower it into their reach, but off the ground. Everyone I hire can count backward.


Nobody that works for me has ever done really low-impact work from what I can tell. Mostly it's crash and bash. Get-er-dun! Rockstar and cigarettes (self-mediation with stimulants much? cannabis, as self-medication for ADD much? All I can go off is the stories guys tell. Like Reg has said, so many guys lead customers to think that zero-impact/ low-impact is not possibly. I just itemize it with a surcharge ($200 additional to avoid damaging the rhododendron butted against the birch).

Of course, when you're swimming an ooze of stimulants, it's hard to stop and listen to a plan, and retain it.

My employee said that I did make a good observation that he was way too jacked up in the morning to listen. Seems like things are always hardest in the morning. Seems like a lot of guys would rather do thing the way they thing or are used to.
He actually texted me last night at 10pm (he knows I'm usually up to 11 or 12).
This is the guy who proudly shows me his waterproof notebook (ziplock), notebook, and pen at work, because, wait for it, writing stuff down keep you from having your head full, and worrying if you have remembered everything (stressful!!!).

I stop him during work sometimes to tell him to write down something, as it happens I help him otherwise, personally. We are friends as well as boss/ employee. His kids love to see me. Parenting tips, like a note in his daughter's lunch, letting her know mom and dad are thinking of her and love her (they've had rough waters, as some of you know). Written notes around there home to the kids and each other. Encouraging messages about getting things together. Making progress. Being able to pull through this crap they are in.

I must just be an asshole boss.
 
Always have heard certain contractors complaining about not being able to find good help.
I think it is usally because the contractor is at fault.
IMO good employers attract good help.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
Thanks Frans.

Where do you find good employees who are safe, responsible, etc? Can you get any to more to Olympia. I hear all the time so many real tree professionals don't want to work in the rain. Do you? Its only 6-8 months of the year. 4-6 months of beautiful weather. We work full time, year round, doing about everything treecare and removal-related. I can hire guys that will drag, drag, drag on removals, all day, but I have a machine for that, multiple actually. Does a way, way better job than them, and cheaper.





A large number of young people come to Olympia because of The Evergreen State College. I think that the non-graded/ written evaluation system (yes, a college with no objective grading system, even for math) attracts a certain subset. They stay because its a cool place with lots of art, music, poetry, tattoos, piercings, festivals.

When Texas Tyler was here. He couldn't believe how long it took for a sandwich to be made at a local place. Restaurant service here is terrible. He couldn't find a cup of coffee, because the baristas led him to believe they didn't have 'coffee'. He could get a 'pour-over' which is where you have someone pour hot, hot water over ground coffee beans, sorta like a Mister Coffee for one, but unnecessarily involving a complicated, expensive process. Is that oblivious customer service?




So Frans, how do you deal with employee performance issues, such as not following clear instructions because they forgot, messing with things they have never been trained to do, or asked to do.
"my fault" and "my bad" doesn't give someone an eye back. One-eye Bob lives half a mile from me. Career logger. Just took once to lose an eye. I'm glad I had my PPE on when I got blasted by the chipper, which was just fine, for hours of chipping, until someone with no authority to make important decisions decided to make important decisions, and without any reason to mess with the machine.


I'm looking for strategies to deal with these frig-ups. How do you deal with things like this, whether is ADD, being not the sharpest tool in the shed, being tired from making decision that lead to not sleeping (like moving your nutjob girlfriend into the shared house, with only a twin bed, and inconsiderate, childish Evergreen College roommates)? That situation was probably my fault, right, him coming in frazzled and unslept, unprepared.

If i simply fire him, I'm back to raking, setting up pull-over with a machine and log-tied-midline, solo driver for the company. I can't drive two trucks to the worksite. If I simply fire guys, I have to start from scratch, and lose money in the meantime.

Strategies seem worth a try.
I'm pretty sure that what some people do in the field of Workplace Development. Help people be more successful workers, leading to more successful lives.






Should I not address safety issues? People would be a lot happier if I didn't. Sure, keep pitchforking within 2' of his face. Great.


I noticed how on the Dept of Labor and Industies website shows my WC claims were 'less than average', while a lot of other guys I know around town are 'more than average'. I think it's because the owner hurts the guys. The owner is ultimately responsible for the safety and injuries to their employees.

I notice a lot of people in general are short-cutters, grunts especially. They just want to go, go, go, the Rockstar and nicotene says so.




I'm certainly not perfect, so I ask for strategies. Any good strategies.

Safe, skilled, productive ('more than average'). Mind-reader? NO.
 
Just shows how disconnected I am from today's labor market. When I was starting out after college, no one would have kept their job for more than a day, with performance like you describe.

I'd not be able to go at this problem as you have, Sean. I'm feeling old :).
 
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