Burnham
Woods walker
Surely that's an exaggeration, Dave. There must be some valuable employees contributing to all those entrepreneur's success 
.
.
Managing employee ADD, Stoner-ADD in the workplace.
- Thread starter SeanKroll
- Start date
- Replies 81
- Views 8K
SeanKroll
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #52
Funny, first line in this articles says Sean is just an asshole who treats his employees like shit and children, and everyone's brain works the same, Very little individual difference. Crazy.
https://www.additudemag.com/add-adhd-at-work-expert-strategies/
Strangely, you will see the last word in the link is "strategies", preceded by "Add and ADHD at work". Nuts.
https://www.additudemag.com/add-adhd-at-work-expert-strategies/
Strangely, you will see the last word in the link is "strategies", preceded by "Add and ADHD at work". Nuts.
Page
TreeHouser
Damn Sean. No offense but I can barely get through reading your posts about these guys. Probably my ADD. I too see a lot of crappy workers come through my company. They don’t last. Usually they don’t even start. I believe the best solutions have been given. Hire slow. Fire fast. Pay better and for God’s sake chill out. ��
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
The ones that always worked out best for me moved on to bigger and better things. In my demographic, it's hard to compete with the big boys.
So they were offered better packages we just could not match.
Now these days, with PG&E struggling to pay the contractors and going bankrupt, they are laying some of the guys off that were working fire clean up etc. So if you hire right now, you are picking from the bottom of their barrel. I am getting calls weekly asking about work. And the hills are now over run the chain saw wielding grondies wanting to be tree businesses.
Drugs are a huge issue as well. Pot heads and meth heads. Guys hitting alcohol at the start of the day. It's nutz.
So they were offered better packages we just could not match.
Now these days, with PG&E struggling to pay the contractors and going bankrupt, they are laying some of the guys off that were working fire clean up etc. So if you hire right now, you are picking from the bottom of their barrel. I am getting calls weekly asking about work. And the hills are now over run the chain saw wielding grondies wanting to be tree businesses.
Drugs are a huge issue as well. Pot heads and meth heads. Guys hitting alcohol at the start of the day. It's nutz.
Mick!
TreeHouser
“Super low impact in the anal-gardeners house”
That’s a sentence I’ve never thought I’d see.
That’s a sentence I’ve never thought I’d see.
Bodean
Cali dreamer
Da fuq?
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
Surely that's an exaggeration, Dave. There must be some valuable employees contributing to all those entrepreneur's success
Not a lot of long term employment going on in these fields. If the employees aren't moving on, then the companies themselves fold up.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Stumpshot
General Purpose
Clean sweep. You're in MIT country. Surely there are some brighter light bulbs you could hire!
Nutball
TreeHouser
Hard physical work can also cause one to loose focus on the plan while they become overly focused on the very task at hand.
I don't know if encouraging your guys to at least have a manager type mindset might help: taking an occasional look around to make sure everyone is doing their job correctly and everything that needs doing is getting done in the proper order according to simple logical priority. Just as long as they don't actually go bossing each other around, but just simply to keep aware of the whole situation.
I don't know if I'd find headsets for communication very comfortable, but I've often thought it would be worth a try. Your guys could say what they are about to do in case you have an objection, they can voice concerns, they could possibly have fun conversation more easily while working while you moderate to make sure they keep focused. They should help prevent voice raising which might be misinterpreted as anger, and could make for a more professional appearance as everyone isn't shouting around especially when there's a potential problem that the customer and neighbors would hear if shouted, then become concerned especially if the shout was never heard by who it was for.
I don't know if encouraging your guys to at least have a manager type mindset might help: taking an occasional look around to make sure everyone is doing their job correctly and everything that needs doing is getting done in the proper order according to simple logical priority. Just as long as they don't actually go bossing each other around, but just simply to keep aware of the whole situation.
I don't know if I'd find headsets for communication very comfortable, but I've often thought it would be worth a try. Your guys could say what they are about to do in case you have an objection, they can voice concerns, they could possibly have fun conversation more easily while working while you moderate to make sure they keep focused. They should help prevent voice raising which might be misinterpreted as anger, and could make for a more professional appearance as everyone isn't shouting around especially when there's a potential problem that the customer and neighbors would hear if shouted, then become concerned especially if the shout was never heard by who it was for.
Jonny
Treehouser
Sounds like Sean's a pretty reasonable boss to me, that pays good and is willing to teach. Think it's a matter of time before you get someone that has a passion for the work.
It'd be cool if you picked up an employee that's new to the work but actually enjoys it. Thought you had a good one for a while there, with the drive to learn and satisfaction at the end of the job, think that's the union carpenter guy.
It'd be cool if you picked up an employee that's new to the work but actually enjoys it. Thought you had a good one for a while there, with the drive to learn and satisfaction at the end of the job, think that's the union carpenter guy.
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
Wrong end of the state. Do you think MIT grads are working in landscaping?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Just the nutty ones. 
Tim_B.
TreeHouser
Nutball
TreeHouser
It sucks but it's like that everywhere. It's really hard to find people who really like tree work. They just want money or something to hold them over until they find the job they want. I think it's safe to assume fewer kids are growing up doing "hard" work like cutting and splitting firewood, so that's probably a contributing factor. Everyone wants to learn how to write apps or fly drones or simply don't want to work. If healthy able bodied people didn't grow up wasting away watching TV and playing video games all day, and started working a part time job as a teen, they'd have the time and money to support many useful crafts and hobbies which would help them develop skills and learn to enjoy a bit of work.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #66
Think of someone in a rainy environment wanting to go work in the dark in the winter morning, while its raining, to work in the rain until dark, and come home in the dark, just when the rain stops for a few hours. I get tons of applicants asking how much they can get to work in the rain. A main perk of the job up here. Ah, No.
I had ONE employee who could have used more rain. He was a decently-insulated Irish-heritage fella, who I turned into beginner treeworker and climber, who after 10 years has recently gone to nursing...not a career path in trees, without being the boss, best I can tell.
I've always liked being outside, and epic extremes make it more interesting, sometimes. That being said--- Rain, often, Sucks! Can't have big trees, mosses, lichens, fungi, etc, without it.
Not knocking Tyler one bit, you saw pics I posted, but he did say that the little birch he climbed, slick after a flurry of snow was very difficult and weird, and it was 30's or maybe 40*, so cold by TX working standard, overall. I think it's normal. Imagine dragging brush in the cold PNWet, Stacking ropes in the PNWet. It is Way easier to stay warm in the 20's or even teens, than 33* and raining...I've lived out in the cold, too.
Like I said before, most guys won't regularly work in the rain. Some guys will finish a tree or a job. Here it just is how it is. Don't work in the rain and starve. If they aren't already here, they are not likely to come to the rain. I didn't come for the rain or to become a climbing arborist in big trees. I was aiming to stay in conservation work.
Few thorny trees, no poisonous snakes, and 100'ers are medium-ish for firs, good sized for maples, so not too shabby, overall.
If I wasn't tied here, I'm not so sure I'd stay here. The climate is not leading to healthy, healthy lifestyles. Go to Boulder and everyone is fit, active, healthy, and largely attractive. Here, there are artists, musicians, breweries, summer festivals all over, and long, rainy winters (typically, this year has been dry, and we are in for soooo many dead trees, not that I need any more calls), nearby Shelton is the meth capital of the NW, I think, and heroin is rampant. I could have either in 25 minutes, I'd bet money, and town is 15 minutes of driving time out of the 25.
I had ONE employee who could have used more rain. He was a decently-insulated Irish-heritage fella, who I turned into beginner treeworker and climber, who after 10 years has recently gone to nursing...not a career path in trees, without being the boss, best I can tell.
I've always liked being outside, and epic extremes make it more interesting, sometimes. That being said--- Rain, often, Sucks! Can't have big trees, mosses, lichens, fungi, etc, without it.
Not knocking Tyler one bit, you saw pics I posted, but he did say that the little birch he climbed, slick after a flurry of snow was very difficult and weird, and it was 30's or maybe 40*, so cold by TX working standard, overall. I think it's normal. Imagine dragging brush in the cold PNWet, Stacking ropes in the PNWet. It is Way easier to stay warm in the 20's or even teens, than 33* and raining...I've lived out in the cold, too.
Like I said before, most guys won't regularly work in the rain. Some guys will finish a tree or a job. Here it just is how it is. Don't work in the rain and starve. If they aren't already here, they are not likely to come to the rain. I didn't come for the rain or to become a climbing arborist in big trees. I was aiming to stay in conservation work.
Few thorny trees, no poisonous snakes, and 100'ers are medium-ish for firs, good sized for maples, so not too shabby, overall.
If I wasn't tied here, I'm not so sure I'd stay here. The climate is not leading to healthy, healthy lifestyles. Go to Boulder and everyone is fit, active, healthy, and largely attractive. Here, there are artists, musicians, breweries, summer festivals all over, and long, rainy winters (typically, this year has been dry, and we are in for soooo many dead trees, not that I need any more calls), nearby Shelton is the meth capital of the NW, I think, and heroin is rampant. I could have either in 25 minutes, I'd bet money, and town is 15 minutes of driving time out of the 25.
Nutball
TreeHouser
I sure wouldn't work in that weather.
Nutball
TreeHouser
I'd hate getting rain in my eyes and on my safety glasses with no dry clothing to wipe off with, then of course sawdust sticks even more to wet surfaces.
Tim_B.
TreeHouser
Hey, Sean! That previous post of yours was one of your best ever. It really gets across the conditions that you find yourself having to deal with.
This thread you've started is also really great. I'm with Jonny; you sound like a fine boss who is just trying to find a way to allow workers with attention span and focus problems to function safely in a dangerous environment. I've knew a fellow once who was seriously learning impared, whom I considered to be a great success in his life because he was easy to get along with, and would follow orders and work diligently.
In my opinion, if these guys you are dealing with had their minds right, they would try hard to listen to what you say, and follow orders. If they don't fully understand the orders, ask questions until you do. When time permits, they could ask you questions about your approach to things, and your thought process, to try to understand why they are being asked to do things. If someone does not have the big picture understanding about what is going on around them, it is easier to have them do something that seems whacky to you. It's important to explain the "why" of things to people, but they should still follow orders, especially when they are clear and simple. It is called being trainable. If they prove that they are not trainable, because they consistantly refuse to follow orders, there is no hope for them in the future. You are just trying to find a way that permits them to retain information well enough to complete a task. Giving a guy a pen and a pad is only going to help him. The expression I've heard is "A short note is better than a long memory". I need a note just to do my grocery shopping, for gosh sakes.
On a different note, I would love to see a thread about all of the tricks and techniques you use to deal with the soaking wet conditions you live in. Maybe it already exists, and I just need to do the search.
Thanks for all of your posts.
Tim
This thread you've started is also really great. I'm with Jonny; you sound like a fine boss who is just trying to find a way to allow workers with attention span and focus problems to function safely in a dangerous environment. I've knew a fellow once who was seriously learning impared, whom I considered to be a great success in his life because he was easy to get along with, and would follow orders and work diligently.
In my opinion, if these guys you are dealing with had their minds right, they would try hard to listen to what you say, and follow orders. If they don't fully understand the orders, ask questions until you do. When time permits, they could ask you questions about your approach to things, and your thought process, to try to understand why they are being asked to do things. If someone does not have the big picture understanding about what is going on around them, it is easier to have them do something that seems whacky to you. It's important to explain the "why" of things to people, but they should still follow orders, especially when they are clear and simple. It is called being trainable. If they prove that they are not trainable, because they consistantly refuse to follow orders, there is no hope for them in the future. You are just trying to find a way that permits them to retain information well enough to complete a task. Giving a guy a pen and a pad is only going to help him. The expression I've heard is "A short note is better than a long memory". I need a note just to do my grocery shopping, for gosh sakes.
On a different note, I would love to see a thread about all of the tricks and techniques you use to deal with the soaking wet conditions you live in. Maybe it already exists, and I just need to do the search.
Thanks for all of your posts.
Tim
Last edited:
Nutball
TreeHouser
Yes, explaining the why will help the kind who think they know better know why they are doing what they are doing, and not trying to do it their own "better" way. That may have been a cause for the chipper in face incident.
Mick!
TreeHouser
No it bloody well won’t, all this talk of nice sit down chats, pens and pads, strategies, teaching life skills, ADD etc, is all bollocks.
Get the tree on the floor, through the chipper and on the truck, get paid, go home.
It’s tree work not social work.
Get the tree on the floor, through the chipper and on the truck, get paid, go home.
It’s tree work not social work.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hahahahaaa!!! BOLLOCKS!
biggun
Monkey for Hire
Sean,
Please don’t take this the wrong way but maybe you are micro managing them too much?
What you expect on a daily basis isn’t unreasonable. You have to take the skills of each guy and utilise them to the best and of their ability. Constantly haveing toolbox talks and updates through out the day. Keep it simple, do tovercomplicate things. As Mick says, get the tree down, get it processed, get the check and then get the help out of there.
Can your not (maybe you have and I missed it) let the guys try and figure shit out for themselves? Instead of mothering them all the time. If you treat them like kids or idiots they will continue to act that way.
Same IMO as calling a child an idiot or lazy. The negatives will be remembered and they will come to believe they are what they have been called.
It seems like you want to manage your small, 1 crew tree team as a FOOTSI 500 multinational. It is just tree work and not rocket science.
I guess without walking in your shoes we don’t exactly know how it would feel. If it were me and the staff had difficulty comprehending the simplest of tasks then they would be out the door sharpish.
I have slot of time for beginners but absolutely zero time for idiots.
Good luck.
Please don’t take this the wrong way but maybe you are micro managing them too much?
What you expect on a daily basis isn’t unreasonable. You have to take the skills of each guy and utilise them to the best and of their ability. Constantly haveing toolbox talks and updates through out the day. Keep it simple, do tovercomplicate things. As Mick says, get the tree down, get it processed, get the check and then get the help out of there.
Can your not (maybe you have and I missed it) let the guys try and figure shit out for themselves? Instead of mothering them all the time. If you treat them like kids or idiots they will continue to act that way.
Same IMO as calling a child an idiot or lazy. The negatives will be remembered and they will come to believe they are what they have been called.
It seems like you want to manage your small, 1 crew tree team as a FOOTSI 500 multinational. It is just tree work and not rocket science.
I guess without walking in your shoes we don’t exactly know how it would feel. If it were me and the staff had difficulty comprehending the simplest of tasks then they would be out the door sharpish.
I have slot of time for beginners but absolutely zero time for idiots.
Good luck.
I'll second that.
And Mick too, for that matter.
Now I'm going to write something that'll get Butch on my ass again for "Dissing 'Merica".
What the frig is wrong with a country where you can't get good people to do treework?
The " Bobster" loves to tell us that lefties just want to loaf off and suck the state tit.
Then why is it that here in commieland I've never had that problem.
Bear in mind that I've trained apprentices for 25+ years.
I've had a few who dropped out, because they realized that logging wasn't really what they thought it would be, but not a single one that wasn't up to the job.
So, Sean, I'm sorry, but I'll have to side with Rich, Mick and Burnham and say that the problem is you, not your employees.
I simply refuse to believe that the workers in the US are as bad as that.
And Mick too, for that matter.
Now I'm going to write something that'll get Butch on my ass again for "Dissing 'Merica".
What the frig is wrong with a country where you can't get good people to do treework?
The " Bobster" loves to tell us that lefties just want to loaf off and suck the state tit.
Then why is it that here in commieland I've never had that problem.
Bear in mind that I've trained apprentices for 25+ years.
I've had a few who dropped out, because they realized that logging wasn't really what they thought it would be, but not a single one that wasn't up to the job.
So, Sean, I'm sorry, but I'll have to side with Rich, Mick and Burnham and say that the problem is you, not your employees.
I simply refuse to believe that the workers in the US are as bad as that.
