In The News...

[pantheraba]

Just read this on CNN:

"It won't be anything like diving that most people recognize. It will be diving in what is effectively muddy water, possibly fast-flowing, with no sense of direction," Moret said. "You can't tell what's up, down, sideways."

Good info here on how they might proceed:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/03/asia/thai-rescue-next-phase-intl/index.html

I wrote here about an incident I had a few years ago in about 3-5 feet of water with increasing current, confined space and getting hung on a projecting bolt under a bridge we were working under. Several things went wrong at once...it is a sobering experience. I hope they can find another way to rescue those young fellows.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Four months until the water subsides.

 

[dstimber]

Thats crazy. The first I?ve heard of this was today. I wish those guys the best, and hope for a good outcome.

The 3-4 cave diving movies I?ve seen has kept me from wanting to try it. It amazes me but I think I?ll pass.

 

[cory]

Yes I heard a cave diving rescue expert on the radio say it could be weeks before they get out of there. The only easy possible solution is if weather cooperates and water level recedes. Otherwise it's going to be a long time before those kids get outta there. Crazy chit

 

[MasterBlaster]

I heard months, not weeks.

 

[cory]

Yeah I think you are right

 

[FireFighterZero]

Better call those cats that rescue Chilean miners.


Fack....there are some courageous people.

 

[BlackSmith]

Such diversity and tolerance...

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland..._protest_leader_micah.html#incart_river_index

 

[MasterBlaster]

He'd better hope her dad doesn't find him.

 

[BlackSmith]

I hope he does...

 

[Tree09]

Gary, if there are no squeeze passages, could a ropeway be rigged and the kids restrained on a gurney so their panicking couldn't endanger them? It would be terrifying to say the least, but at least they could be extracted?... would probably lead to severe phobias for most of them, but that's better than dead or trapped with unknown air supply....

 

[pantheraba]

If the passageways are large enough it is probably safest to put the person in a Stokes type basket, secure them like a casualty, secure an air supply to the stretcher, have a redundant air supply and then move them...it will be an exercise in buoyancy and lift bags, too. I have never heard of an extrication like this...but if people were trapped in a ship near shore this type rescue might be required. It is not something we have done. We have practiced securing drowning victims in a basket and removing them that way...with lift bags to help. I have taken a body bag to a drowning victim before (female suicide, about 2 years ago) and we put her in the bag and swam her to the EMT's on shore...they took over from there.

But we have not practiced rescue of underwater victims...oxygen for the victim has not been an issue for us.

If the passageways are small and a basket will not work the process is fraught with risk. I'm sure some good folks are pondering and arguing about how best to save these boys.

This is a Stokes:

It would be a hugely traumatic way to be moved underwater. We'll see.

 

[pantheraba]

If a kid panics and vomits into the full face mask you have a real problem.

 

[MasterBlaster]

The safest thing is to wait four months.

 

[Mellow]

The British Cave Rescue Council, which has members taking part in the operation, said in a statement that "although water levels have dropped, the diving conditions remain difficult and any attempt to dive the boys and their coach out will not be taken lightly because there are significant technical challenges and risks to consider."

Gary Mitchell, the group's assistant vice-chairman, said getting out of the cave requires about a kilometre of diving in total, though not all in one stretch, and takes about three hours.

"There's air pockets along the way," he said. "It's confined spaces. It's almost zero visibility. There's currents to battle against in places as well. So it's a really quite a strenuous environment to be in," he said. ~Thomson Reuters ? Posted: Jul 04, 2018 6:15 AM ET

 

[MasterBlaster]

They are going anywhere - might as well prepare for the wait. I 'spect divers will bring them all the bare necessities, hopefully along with a deck of cards and some dominos. People have been locked up in solitary for a lot longer than 4 months before.

 

[pantheraba]

I suspect some of the concern is that if monsoon rains keep adding to the water levels that there not be any place left to go. Water might fill the part of the cave where they are and there may be no place left to climb/retreat to. Then diving is the only choice. Just heard on NPR that they are starting the diving lessons now. It will be with full face mask which is easier to breathe with.

A standard regulator you hold in your mouth with your teeth. If your mask comes off you can still breathe through the regulator...IF you keep your head and have practiced that. Then you have to know how to put your mask back on...IF the current (which there are currents in that cave) has not swept the mask away in the dark.

And if your regulator gets knocked out...or you vomit or something...you have to know how to clear the regulator once you manage to put it back in your mouth. The boys have a lot of practicing to do...which is probably good. They need to be doing something to keep them occupied...maybe they'll get four months of dive training and never have to use it. Their basic skills will be primo by then.

6/10 mile underwater is a huge deal.

 

[Mick!]

Thanks for the perspective Gary.

 

[Tree09]

I wonder if they could air bag the part of the cave where the water is coming from, allowing the pumps to do better? Incredibly complicated rescue for sure no matter what

 

[squisher]

I don't know if I read it here or elsewhere that if they do dive out. It will be two crack divers to accompany each boy. Still all seems dicey but much better than just having drowned in there already.

Thanks for the perspective and info Gary. It'll be interesting to see how it progresses.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I would drill a hole.

I hope that this is the best option.

Reminds me of some of the medial classes I have had.

One scenario was finding a car load of entrapped people.

First instinct was to start yarding people out by hair or by limb.


A quick assessment informed us that these people were stable. There were no immediate threats to life and health, and that we should wait for the responders who were properly equipped to handle the extrication.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I wonder if drilling a hole would help the water to fill up that chamber quicker?

 

[FireFighterZero]

Hard to say.

 

[MasterBlaster]

If the chamber is above sea level a hole should be safe.

 

[Mellow]

My first wife was a certified scuba diving instructor and a certified cave diver. We did a LOT of diving back in the days before we had children. I never did a cave dive but we did quite a few cavern dives; there is a difference. I can tell you from experience that one careless flip of a fin can stir up eneough silt to reduce visibility to zero and that is in a relatively open cavern in the daylight. I've also done a few "wild cave tours" where a guide takes you to the un-touristy sections of caves where you're wiggling through crevices and shafts that are barely big enough to fit through. Combining those two activities is not for novices.