rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Wow! Thanks Burnham.
Felling with D. Douglas Dent
- Thread starter Burnham
- Start date
- Replies 358
- Views 45K
W
Wagnaw
Guest
Hey Burnham, Back to the face cut issue... If you all are wanting the hinge to hold as long as possible, why aren't you all using open (90 degree) face cuts? I was trained by the Forest Service over on the East Coast, and they were all about open face cuts.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #78
Wag, if I want the hinge to hold as long as possible, I will put in a wide face, just as you describe. We call it a "birdsmouth" face here. It looks like a conventional and a humbolt put together. I bet this is what you are refering to.
Mostly though, I don't need the hinge to hold as long as maximally possible, rather to hold long enough. It's more work than I need to do to form a face to hold until the tree is all the way on the ground on every single tree I fall. I completely agree that a small face, like 20 or 30 degrees, closes too quickly and breaks the hinge too early in the fall for most applications...but even that "rule" has exceptions.
It's a matter of knowing when you need the longest possible functioning hinge, and when you don't, and choosing what to do based on that knowlege rather than by rote.
Remember, I work for the USFS...I know all about their "all abouts"
. It is my experience that regional chainsaw coordinators are not generally quite as competent nor experienced as one might wish. Absolutes are easy to require. It takes effort to differentiate subtle reasons for variations of methodology. Federal bureaucracies are not usually good at this 
.
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
A slant on the bottom, humboldt is harder to make; for you are carrying that big saw upward against gravity; instead of letting it ride downward with gravity in a conventional. So, a tall top facing can give more towards open face travel; with less effort i think.
i really like the tail 'tales' of pulling fibre left to one side against lean /pull from side in the pictures. Really accentuates the forces going on; like on the front of Dent's book; like the sawyer and the tall fibre saluting each other over a job well done.
i really like the tail 'tales' of pulling fibre left to one side against lean /pull from side in the pictures. Really accentuates the forces going on; like on the front of Dent's book; like the sawyer and the tall fibre saluting each other over a job well done.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #80
I have read you make this assertion before, KC, and I guess I have to say I disagree...if the cutter is making proper use of the dogs as pivot point, the heavy part of the saw, the body, is actually moving down, favored by gravity. It's the bar that is moving up.
With the conventional face the body has to be lifted up as the slanting cut goes is. So I think it's the opposite to your view.
The critical element is proper technique in using the dogs as a pivot point.
That's not to say because of this I think the humbolt is the better face cut to employ...lots of other factors in that call to consider...a different discussion.
W
Wagnaw
Guest
Wag, if I want the hinge to hold as long as possible, I will put in a wide face, just as you describe. We call it a "birdsmouth" face here. It looks like a conventional and a humbolt put together. I bet this is what you are refering to.
Mostly though, I don't need the hinge to hold as long as maximally possible, rather to hold long enough. It's more work than I need to do to form a face to hold until the tree is all the way on the ground on every single tree I fall. I completely agree that a small face, like 20 or 30 degrees, closes too quickly and breaks the hinge too early in the fall for most applications...but even that "rule" has exceptions.
It's a matter of knowing when you need the longest possible functioning hinge, and when you don't, and choosing what to do based on that knowlege rather than by rote.
Remember, I work for the USFS...I know all about their "all abouts"
That's a great response and description of the forest service!! I completely agree.
That said, my personal preference is to make a full face cut, low to the ground, with the bottom part of the hinge steeper than the top. also that the full open face pulls less hinge fiber than conventional hinges, and the logs I'm usually dealing with are valuable hardwoods, which I don't want to waste.
Again... there is no substitution in the federal bureaucracies for someone with experience and a good logical head on their shoulders.
...That's my shpeal.
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
That is fair; if you play it right and can dig'em in well(not too hard, not to rotted); AND high enough; that you can slant bar to ride that pivot without nosing into the ground. i guess i was mentally picturing more when the lowest part of Humboldt is closer to the ground; and you have to have a long bar straight across not to hit ground; and have to lift it straight in pairallell with ground for a ways before being able to set it on it's pivot. Kinda thought that is a reason for humboldt standard; to maximize useable spar length; so cut low for same reason. But, a fair point ye make, none the less!
rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
Another advantage of the humboldt on large trees is that the cut piece of wood will easily fall out of the face cut.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Burnam, I just wanted to say this has been a fantastic thread. I always find your threads very educational and informative. I wish I had you as an instructor. We drop some pretty good sized Bull Pine, Cedar and Ponderosa here. I often get to experiment with different cuts in open fields and in the woods. I am one that also sees how slow I can fell a tree. I prefer a gentle lay down to the big pop and plop. LOL
Thank you for being in here and what you share.
Stephen
P.S. Have a 48" dbh Bull pine to drop this fall. I hope to get a vid of it for everyone....
Thank you for being in here and what you share.
Stephen
P.S. Have a 48" dbh Bull pine to drop this fall. I hope to get a vid of it for everyone....
M
Mr. Sir
Guest
At the safety seminar I attended today, Bruce Smith mentioned the 90-15-5 rule of felling trees. Is anyone familiar with this? 
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
If it's under 90' it better not take you more than 15 minutes, but if it's after 5 it's miller time so don't even bother starting.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
That's not it. It's a Shigo thing.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Well then what's the lowdown?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I'm not sure I can recite it correctly.
M
Mr. Sir
Guest
It was in reference to loggers. In 90% of the accident cases, within 15 seconds of the tree starting to fall, the feller was killed within 5 feet of the stump. In other words, taking at least two steps(preferably more) away from a falling tree within 15 seconds of the first movement will lower your risk of death by 90%. I know most loggers are taught to get away from the tree as it falls, but as an arborist, I was taught to keep the saw in the cut as the tree fell in order to "steer" it if necessary, until it was fully committed to the lay.
Old Monkey
Treehouser
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2005
- Messages
- 8,764
I boogie on out of there and I wear a pink chiffon dress while felling. Do you know how many people have been killed felling trees in pink chiffon dresses? ZERO! I am upping my odds of surviving by a huge amount.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
haha darin, good trick. im going to start wearing one to lower my odds, sorry that it will raise yours
mr sir, allow your proper face, back and hinge "steer" your tree. i know you already know but thought id toss it out there
mr sir, allow your proper face, back and hinge "steer" your tree. i know you already know but thought id toss it out there
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
At the safety seminar I attended today, Bruce Smith mentioned the 90-15-5 rule of felling trees. Is anyone familiar with this?
If it's under 90' it better not take you more than 15 minutes, but if it's after 5 it's miller time so don't even bother starting.
Aww heck... squishy just PNW'ed it little... Most of the fallers I know prolly think that way... trust me. LOL
Gary
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
Anyone know where to get Dent's book? Bailey's used to carry it, but I couldn't find it on their site last night when I was ordering some stuff. Thanks.
SkwerI
Treehouser
A quick search at Amazon gave me this:
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-...r_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233285902&sr=1-12
http://www.amazon.com/Professional-...r_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233285902&sr=1-12
18 stoner
But not stoned...
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
I've got a copy coming from Bailey's, should be here today.
