Felling with D. Douglas Dent

[Al Smith]

Oh just when I thought I was a pretty good faller I see something I have absolutly no experiance with,namely large firs on slopes,as we have neither in these parts.In these parts ,seldom is the tree over 30 inchs.That said,good thread .

 

[sotc]

The bore cut caused the tree to leave it's hinge at a higher point above the apex of the face cut than it would have with out the bore cut.

no rr i believe it only eased the wedge driving. the face closing is the point the tree leaves the hinge

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

There is theory that the outer fibers are more flexible; and the older, drier, deader wood in center is less flexible; and more likely to cause splintering farther up inside in the fattest part of lumber. The hinges are all the same strength at first folding; for they all have the same pull on them forcing that strength; so the sides of a center punched face are thicker; and this is where the most leverage is (at outer extremes) against side to side movement.

A real inflexible wooded tree might splinter more; release before closing i'd think, and the center plunge may help mitigate that by placing the center fibers to the outsides.

Tearoff will happen when that side of face closes; so in a dutch on one side the early close side will tear off as the opposite open side is still pulling/ connected. The tearoff tends to force a Natural tapered hinge across from what i've seen. This is more pronounced in Live Oaks than pines; as the pine is softer; has more give on closing IMLHO.

 

[lumberjack]

Leon, ol' Dent would rip ya a new one .

When you form up a face cut that is unlevel, as the one in your avatar appears to be, you have set up two opposing forces.

First, you have directed the tree in a different direction than that to which the tree is gunned...in the case of the avatar tree the actual fall will begin to be to the right of the gunned fall. This is because the folding of the hinge takes the tree off line from the gunning sights, which point in the same direction whether the saw bar is horizontal or tipped up or down some.

Second, the higher side of the face closes before the lower side, breaking loose the hinge on the right side of the avatar tree before the left side. As with a dutchman, the tree will swing toward the held side of the hinge...to the left side of the avatar tree.

In the end, no one knows which force will overpower the other, or if they will balance out and the cutter ends up looking like a genius .

Bottom line, control is given up and luck takes over...while we can never excercise complete control nor escape luck's whim, we should strive to hold on to principles that allow us the best shot at outcomes we desire. Make your face cut and back cut level.

My take on it is the hinge is suppose to be perpendicular to the wood fiber, to get a leaning tree to fall true, you adjust the hinge to the fiber. To me it looks like the trunk is leaning down hill at roughly the same angle as the lean. Assuming the back cut was parallel to the hinge and not lower than the apex, I'd say it was a good fell.

I could quote a couple sources for this (Gerry for example), I also have personal experience with a flat (to the horizon) hinge and a hinge aligned with the fibers. Aligning with the fibers has made the tree fall true every time for me, to the horizon moves the tree differently, either can be useful in a particular situation.

 

[GASoline71]

Whats up with pic # 10 with the 3 wedges? To the right of the pull wood it looks like there is a step. A flat higher than the bottom cut. What did I miss?


{EDIT} 1st off the pic gives kind of an illusion, at least on my screen. But I think I got it. It was a bore cut like you had explained ealier. I just didn't put the explanation with that pic. You can see the heart wood wasn't included in the hinge because of the bore cut. You can also see where the tree crunched the leading edge of the heart wood right before it left the stump. The bore cut caused the tree to leave it's hinge at a higher point above the apex of the face cut than it would have with out the bore cut.

Jeff, I think you are noticing that the back cut is about 2 inches higher than the face cut. That is a kinda like a built in safety to help control stump shot.

Gary

 

[RIVERRAT]

no rr i believe it only eased the wedge driving. the face closing is the point the tree leaves the hinge

Yes it is for the reason you give. That is a given I use the practice myself.
But I disagree that it cant cause a snag or tree to leave the stump earlier than if hadn't been bore cut it in the manner shown.

The first thing the top of your face cut will make contact with will be the high portion of heart wood left from the bore cut. That not only extends beyond the apex of the face cut but is higher than the bottom cut of the face. It can act like a fulcrum breaking the hinge.Causing the hinge to give way earlier than if the top & bottom of the face cut made contact. Now this could depend a bit on the type of tree & whether it is green or not.

 

[pete mctree]

I disagree RR, the only time that a tree seperates from the hinge early is either over extension of fibres and the tree pulling ( i.e. felling downhill) or brittle decayed timber. If the fibres remain intact until the face closes how can boring out the heart wood effect this?

 

[squisher]

Yah I know you've said in the past that you have a trouble at times getting your ideas across in words riverrat, but I'm not really following what you're trying to get at either. Maybe give it another go? Word it differently? I find these falling/hinge threads fascinating so please have another go at it.

Do you mean like if the tree has such a hard lean against the direction that you're trying to fall it that it tears away the hinge early if the middle of the holding wood is bored out because there's not enough left to hold it? If so I don't think that would be the case as the majority of force in that situation would be on the holding wood opposite of the lean and not on the holding/hinge wood that was either still in or bored out of the middle. Maybe if you bored out way to much?

 

[RIVERRAT]

OK, I'll give it another go. You make your face cut with a tall top cut as was done in Burnham's pics. Before starting your back you place a 4" thick piece of wood or steel in the bottom of your face cut. If that piece of wood or steel doesn't get driven down into the stump when is the hinge going to break.
By my description we have in fact raised the height of the bottom cut .
By 4" the thickness of what we placed in the face cut. As the face cut closes the top cut will make contact 1st with the item we put there well before complete closure is made. Possibly breaking the hinge & leaving the stump earlier.

My point, when you bore cut in the manner shown & it is not done right

{I am not saying it was wrong in the pic}

& also use a high back cut you run the risk of what I describe. Draw a straight line across the stump in the pic right on the hinge wood. Look at how much heart wood from the bore cut is extending out past the hinge into the face. If one bore cuts to far in & came in to high you would in effect be placing something into face like I WAS DESCRIBING BEFORE. What I am describing could not have happend in the pic.

 

[bergsteiger]

Sounds like you're describing something similar to a step dutchman.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'd think a step would be on one side and not center mast. i think i see where RR is going; iff the tree is forward and not side leaning. Actually if plunging center face i prefer to cheat and backcut just above lower face; leaving no stump shod/catch; and come straight into plunge.

 

[RIVERRAT]

Sounds like you're describing something similar to a step dutchman.

I believe that could cause the same thing.

 

[sotc]

would the hinge not carry the trunk past the bore? there wouldnt be any strength in the bored part as it would just pop off with any amount of weight. maybe?

 

[RIVERRAT]

would the hinge not carry the trunk past the bore? there wouldnt be any strength in the bored part as it would just pop off with any amount of weight. maybe?

Yes when done right like in the pic. The trunk or rest of the hinge would pass.
Intelligent observation!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think this is partially dependent on the position/direction of the source force(CG). In all calculations this must be recognized and just not taken as generically all ways the same situation irrespective of this key component.

i think with a good sidelean what you are describing is less likely to happen than with a forward lean; because the pivot and compression point is different. Just as a step dutchman on lean side will push harder towards center; than if the step dutchman is errantly placed on the side away from the sidelean.

Also, this at best wouldn't be as intense as a step dutchman; becasue it couldn't close as hard with the uncut part of hinge on each side acting as trestles to keep this 'center dutchman' up so not closing as hard(?).

 

[Burnham]

I'm gonna bump this one too, for the benefit of those who may have joined up since it was active. I think it has some great pics and conversation.

Can y'all tell I'm having a good time hunting for threads for this new forum?

 

[Paul B]

cant barely see the grin under the mustache! keep it up Mr B!

 

[MasterBlaster]

He's a bumping madman! We don't usually see you online this late, B!

 

[SkwerI]

There's some mighty good stuff here, Mr. B.

 

[GASoline71]

I tol' you dis was a good idear mang!

There is a lot of good stuff about fallin' and wedgin' that was buried in the forums... Now we can just pop in here to see it!

Gary

 

[Big A]

Awesome thread Burnham! Looks lke I got to start making more time to get back into the 'House again

 

[vharrison]

this is an awesome thread! Burnam, you're a stud.

Another contender for the best thread! Cool stuff Burn!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Awesome thread Burnham! Looks lke I got to start making more time to get back into the 'House again

I was suprised how quickly all ya'll Brits abandoned us like ya'll did. ArbTalk is cool, but the more forums the better! Heck, I'm active in 6 or 7 forums.

 

[Burnham]

Bump, kids. I loaded the pics back into this thread, hopefully the same ones .

 

[MasterBlaster]

Thanks a lot, B-Man!