MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I'd rather meet that fellow from down under...
Felling with D. Douglas Dent
- Thread starter Burnham
- Start date
- Replies 358
- Views 45K
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
Ah yes. Graeme. I wouldn't mind sitting in a class with him teaching.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
I loved the way he had a computer and was calculating the weight of each piece then pretensioning three lines, doing the math with trigonometry measuring the angles of the lines to get the pieces to gently lift off the cut a foot or two like they were levitating... Pretty slick.. then you have the kind of tree man like my old mentor Bg John ... Crane op would say "we're good for 5,700 lbs... he'd tell me where to cut it and the load would come in at 5,200, always a few hundred pounds lower...
chris_girard
Treehouser
Burnham, is it true that later on in Dent's career he stopped teaching the "Dutchman" cut because he felt that it was unreliable at best? I forget where I heard that from.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #133
Could have been from me 
...yes, he spoke to this point; he'd decided that while in general the technique worked, the degree that a singular tree in any one particular situation responded to the Dutchman was so variable as to make it an unreliable method...for teaching to his students, anyway 
.
...yes, he spoke to this point; he'd decided that while in general the technique worked, the degree that a singular tree in any one particular situation responded to the Dutchman was so variable as to make it an unreliable method...for teaching to his students, anyway .
gf beranek
Old Schooler
It couldn't be explained any simpler than that.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #135
Word, from a couple of the best skilled sawyers we'll ever be graced to learn from...both Jerry and Doug. I'm an extremely lucky man to have known and studied under Dent, and proud to know and to have just plain studied Beranek . Greatest respect for them both.
. Greatest respect for them both.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
I picked up on a lot of things in Dent's book that proved very useful through my career, but his illustrations, least until I could read them anyway, left a lot to be desired. Dent had a large effect on how the chapters in the Fundamentals, on said subjects, turned out. Not surprising at all. His procedural approach was the most comprehensive work through the 80's and 90's. For a dumb ol' Lumberjack he had a sure gift to put it all in words and illustrations. Right up my ally.
Burnham
Woods walker
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #137
Truth be told, Jerry...you write a far more readable text, let alone those hard to decipher illustrations of his. You have to work at it some to understand Doug's stuff, most times.
In the field, at the tree and then after at the stump or bucking position, Doug was always crystal clear. His everyday speaking style was very different from his video and even more so from his written style. An interesting man, for sure.
For those that might wonder, Jerry also does a much better video, head and shoulders above Dent imo.
Dent did have to labor under different challenges, technically, back when he was making his training films...the dark ages, from this point in time looking in the rear view mirror.
In the field, at the tree and then after at the stump or bucking position, Doug was always crystal clear. His everyday speaking style was very different from his video and even more so from his written style. An interesting man, for sure.
For those that might wonder, Jerry also does a much better video, head and shoulders above Dent imo.
Dent did have to labor under different challenges, technically, back when he was making his training films...the dark ages, from this point in time looking in the rear view mirror.
Last edited:
gf beranek
Old Schooler
He did excellent for what he had to work with in the day. Like you said, big challenges.
Look at what August is producing in is fun time. The capabilities for producing good quality training vids today are at hand, and affordable to the masses.
Look at what August is producing in is fun time. The capabilities for producing good quality training vids today are at hand, and affordable to the masses.
rico11764
Thin skinned
I haven't posted around here in awhile, but wanted to thank Burnham for keeping this one alive. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr Dent, and his falling book was a big influence on me, in my younger days. His books, along with Mr Beranek's should be required reading for all aspiring arborists/treemen. Keep up the good work Burnham!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hey, Erik!
pantheraba
More biners!!!
Burnham keeps mentoring folks here like Dent did...good stuff.
rico11764
Thin skinned
Hola jefe! Que' pasa?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
De' nada, vato.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Hang out, ay!?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I'm always somewhere!
rfwoody
Treehouser
Thanks for the great thread, Burnham.
I plan to try to dig for more similar treasures here.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
For me Dent's lil'book changed everything; very early on, bought partially cuz so cheap!
>>though Gerry's Poster 7'@150 become humbling inspiration, and later his book too!
.
It took a while to follow Dent's drawings completely (meaning years!)
But, in the end i saw any Dutchman as early close / push force in face
A>accidentally thru kerf across fiber on bottom out of normal facing>> that gives no forward path of relief; only resistance and can be deadly
B>purpose-fully executed uneven faces to sidelean to more use EXISTING tree forces and not remove them with saw by lean side higher than offside.
>>this does offer a path of relief to forward raging forces; to the offside (of lean/ counter-sidelean side)
>>this can be deadly to, but more tame-able; allows the raging, rushing forces a forward path
.
Similarily, a tapered hinge leaves more fibre on the offside, so can use EXISTING pull forces against sideline to pull center.
>>we remove more back-fibre from sideline side so the imbalance of sideline is countered by the imbalance of tension pull
.
In each case, forces are working in the tree the whole time it day-to-day in these positions;
Dent just recommends not removing where they are most prevalent with he saw!
.
The tapered hinge is just a pre-existing rear tension pull to counter sidelean ; and dutchman is just the compression answer on front side.
Both are imbalances, to 1 side to fight the sidelean .
>>The side lean creates a 'loaded axis' across the hinge axis.
>>The extremes of this loaded axis are the most extremely loaded to fight sidelean, so preserve
>>close to load compression fibers on loaded axis for dutchman and farthest tension fibers for tapered, to be preserved.
.
Many warnings on all of this, very specifically to full loadings of felling;
where these forces are most accentuated, therefore most witness able.
.
Dent also shows same techniques turned sideways for bucking, that can be truly magical, and present many lessons, that can do many times in 1 felling at lower risk and even change loaded pulls etc. to play/ L-earn.
For larger top compression i favor not folding upwards to 12 noon on gravity axis where forces are most severe;
but rather to 1:30 or so; where part of the tourquing to the side of the fold dissipates some of the finite/but massive forces.
>>i have a hinge tapered to lower side and dutch to top 12 noon , where most fold pressure is force sideways to 1:30 as hinge pulls same
The diagrams are as felling with these strategies, only up is the sidelean side
.
Taken into the tree, climbing/rigging for folding horizontals more across as gravity pulls down it is reversed.
Down becomes the sidelean part of equation so that is side of more dutching , and so up becomes more positioning of tapered hinge pull
>>Don't count on a 3pm fold, pure across, offer some downward relief at least to 4pm w/o rigging especially.
.
All the same science, just at different angles and loading ranges; many lessons to carry back from each observation point of usage to next!
At werk, gotta run, glad to see the usual suspects.
.
edit:
i think rope pulls and wedge lifts would be added in on the fall axis, to hinge facing/ target;
so that these added inputs must leverage stronger hinge, to then have stronger tapered hinge pull against sidelean
.
rather than>> pulling/pushing across face against sidelean/90degrees from sidelean to counter sidelean
A> directly,without hinge multiplier
B> only temporarily while adjustment applied
.
So, serve to face with rope and wedge, force stronger hinge
>>don't take weight off sidelean as hinge is forging, let hinge forge stronger!
>>Then after tree committed correctly, has whatever fiber forged relieve extra loadings to not break hinge earlier
wedge lift:would lift off wedge as relief
rope pull:don't pull with rope at this point; would only load more, we only wanted to fake more weight until 'first folding' to force/exercise stronger
>>though Gerry's Poster 7'@150 become humbling inspiration, and later his book too!
.
It took a while to follow Dent's drawings completely (meaning years!)
But, in the end i saw any Dutchman as early close / push force in face
A>accidentally thru kerf across fiber on bottom out of normal facing>> that gives no forward path of relief; only resistance and can be deadly
B>purpose-fully executed uneven faces to sidelean to more use EXISTING tree forces and not remove them with saw by lean side higher than offside.
>>this does offer a path of relief to forward raging forces; to the offside (of lean/ counter-sidelean side)
>>this can be deadly to, but more tame-able; allows the raging, rushing forces a forward path
.
Similarily, a tapered hinge leaves more fibre on the offside, so can use EXISTING pull forces against sideline to pull center.
>>we remove more back-fibre from sideline side so the imbalance of sideline is countered by the imbalance of tension pull
.
In each case, forces are working in the tree the whole time it day-to-day in these positions;
Dent just recommends not removing where they are most prevalent with he saw!
.
The tapered hinge is just a pre-existing rear tension pull to counter sidelean ; and dutchman is just the compression answer on front side.
Both are imbalances, to 1 side to fight the sidelean .
>>The side lean creates a 'loaded axis' across the hinge axis.
>>The extremes of this loaded axis are the most extremely loaded to fight sidelean, so preserve
>>close to load compression fibers on loaded axis for dutchman and farthest tension fibers for tapered, to be preserved.
.
Many warnings on all of this, very specifically to full loadings of felling;
where these forces are most accentuated, therefore most witness able.
.
Dent also shows same techniques turned sideways for bucking, that can be truly magical, and present many lessons, that can do many times in 1 felling at lower risk and even change loaded pulls etc. to play/ L-earn.
For larger top compression i favor not folding upwards to 12 noon on gravity axis where forces are most severe;
but rather to 1:30 or so; where part of the tourquing to the side of the fold dissipates some of the finite/but massive forces.
>>i have a hinge tapered to lower side and dutch to top 12 noon , where most fold pressure is force sideways to 1:30 as hinge pulls same
The diagrams are as felling with these strategies, only up is the sidelean side
.
Taken into the tree, climbing/rigging for folding horizontals more across as gravity pulls down it is reversed.
Down becomes the sidelean part of equation so that is side of more dutching , and so up becomes more positioning of tapered hinge pull
>>Don't count on a 3pm fold, pure across, offer some downward relief at least to 4pm w/o rigging especially.
.
All the same science, just at different angles and loading ranges; many lessons to carry back from each observation point of usage to next!
At werk, gotta run, glad to see the usual suspects.
.
edit:
i think rope pulls and wedge lifts would be added in on the fall axis, to hinge facing/ target;
so that these added inputs must leverage stronger hinge, to then have stronger tapered hinge pull against sidelean
.
rather than>> pulling/pushing across face against sidelean/90degrees from sidelean to counter sidelean
A> directly,without hinge multiplier
B> only temporarily while adjustment applied
.
So, serve to face with rope and wedge, force stronger hinge
>>don't take weight off sidelean as hinge is forging, let hinge forge stronger!
>>Then after tree committed correctly, has whatever fiber forged relieve extra loadings to not break hinge earlier
wedge lift:would lift off wedge as relief
rope pull:don't pull with rope at this point; would only load more, we only wanted to fake more weight until 'first folding' to force/exercise stronger
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Hey Kenny!
