Felling with D. Douglas Dent
- Thread starter Burnham
- Start date
- Replies 358
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Frankie
I Build and Run Ported Saws !
Been nippin at sauce have we Fagan ?
gf beranek
Old Schooler
For medicinal only.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Murph's BC vid to me shows the tree raging forward with massive indomitable forces,
into an indomitable stop/face (of 'no face') that does not allow passage.
>>neither of these 2 badass bulls in same corral will give up ground! And tree fails...
On a LOT smaller scale and with almost no face/just kerf
>>same scenario can be tamed in tree vertically (kerf horizontal) to hop top over fence
>>or on horizontal branch as 'snap cut' (names /versions vary) of vertical kerf cut to be closed/Full Face Dutchman
Just not so massive forces of throw and stop, as to over-rule the constitution of the tree as a container of the competing volume of forces.
.
BUT, same 'schematic of forces' amplified to full tree forces of throw and receiving stop type fight
>>'blows tree apart' as the volume of competing forces supersede the constitution of the wood container
And gives a split decision of going forward and refusing to, from the same stick.
For the naming of Barber Chair, as i understand it, would be more classical if head hit ground and pushed back
>>or shear weight of tree downward on remaining spike/stand made the fold back
As to make tree sitback across the stump, pushing out the rear/ staying on the loaded axis
>>some can slide off side too at some point.
The forward and then back folding, more like old timey barber chairs at a barber's i remember
>>where top folded forward as lower part of chair slid back.
.
The kerf(or more) allows motion/speed into the mix, the squared part of E=MCsquared, and separation.
In smaller, in tree doses of force, this double edge sword is not quite as volatile, more in usable range (with enough throw to overcome stop/close).
But same, very volatile at full , unforgiving tree size.
>>note can also get BC from moving too slow in regular face, not enough speed force/spice in the mix to be throwing cleanly thru to relieve forces
.
The kerf cut face/early close makes it a Dutchman, that can induce speed into the controlling force met of close
>>noting that a tender, soft, slow hit on Dutchman can stall, stop etc. (possibly to BC)as doesn't have the speed multiplier to throw thru the stop of close
The real power of Dutchman is strong slap of more speed to be squared in response.
Full Face Dutchman offers no relief path, but step/side Dutchman does give this possibility and so more usable range
i think Dent stopped serving Dutchman, because of that double edged sword's very high volatility (of its usable power and curse in one).
.
Tho i speak and examine Dutchman from time to time, it is NOT to offer to do, (except in smaller , 'in tree' ranges of force)
but more to realize Dutchman power, and why NOT to invoke, especially accidentally.
>>why to cut squared meeting face parts, like fine wood carving
Tho the Dutchman force is from the bypass of cut perpendicular to fibers past the 'slanted'
NOT so much when slanted bypasses horizontal cut that is perpendicular to the fibers
>>horizontal bypass slanted is close within a close, primary/inner close ruling
>>slanted bypassing horizontal is more of a flex within a flex/flex again(some specific usages)
.
The Tapered Hinge as side load ballast/adjustment does NOT invoke the speed squared factor.
Contrasting to Dutchman closing later in throw, thru compression, Tapered Hinge force is present at start, works thru tension/not compression
>>and the tensions behind pivot part of hinge control speed, instead of compression/Dutch in front of hinge pivot part invoking speed squared.
.
Have even found step Dutchman usage on ground in bucking especially into top compression
>>first try not to feed cut/close into sheerest vertical force, but to side some (1:30 on clock or so)of less sheer force close
>>then step dutch high side with plastic wedge or block of wood (cube block of wood is what Dent showed for a step difference in felling)
Lower part of hinge folding to that face can have fat part of Tapered Hinge, to pull as Step Dutchman pushes in same direction
>>that is NOT to greatest vertical force focal
>>this can work in slower motion, but best to keep it moving not allowing to seize
>>anti-swing tuft of fibers on high side NOT needed
.
into an indomitable stop/face (of 'no face') that does not allow passage.
>>neither of these 2 badass bulls in same corral will give up ground! And tree fails...
On a LOT smaller scale and with almost no face/just kerf
>>same scenario can be tamed in tree vertically (kerf horizontal) to hop top over fence
>>or on horizontal branch as 'snap cut' (names /versions vary) of vertical kerf cut to be closed/Full Face Dutchman
Just not so massive forces of throw and stop, as to over-rule the constitution of the tree as a container of the competing volume of forces.
.
BUT, same 'schematic of forces' amplified to full tree forces of throw and receiving stop type fight
>>'blows tree apart' as the volume of competing forces supersede the constitution of the wood container
And gives a split decision of going forward and refusing to, from the same stick.
For the naming of Barber Chair, as i understand it, would be more classical if head hit ground and pushed back
>>or shear weight of tree downward on remaining spike/stand made the fold back
As to make tree sitback across the stump, pushing out the rear/ staying on the loaded axis
>>some can slide off side too at some point.
The forward and then back folding, more like old timey barber chairs at a barber's i remember
>>where top folded forward as lower part of chair slid back.
.
The kerf(or more) allows motion/speed into the mix, the squared part of E=MCsquared, and separation.
In smaller, in tree doses of force, this double edge sword is not quite as volatile, more in usable range (with enough throw to overcome stop/close).
But same, very volatile at full , unforgiving tree size.
>>note can also get BC from moving too slow in regular face, not enough speed force/spice in the mix to be throwing cleanly thru to relieve forces
.
The kerf cut face/early close makes it a Dutchman, that can induce speed into the controlling force met of close
>>noting that a tender, soft, slow hit on Dutchman can stall, stop etc. (possibly to BC)as doesn't have the speed multiplier to throw thru the stop of close
The real power of Dutchman is strong slap of more speed to be squared in response.
Full Face Dutchman offers no relief path, but step/side Dutchman does give this possibility and so more usable range
i think Dent stopped serving Dutchman, because of that double edged sword's very high volatility (of its usable power and curse in one).
.
Tho i speak and examine Dutchman from time to time, it is NOT to offer to do, (except in smaller , 'in tree' ranges of force)
but more to realize Dutchman power, and why NOT to invoke, especially accidentally.
>>why to cut squared meeting face parts, like fine wood carving
Tho the Dutchman force is from the bypass of cut perpendicular to fibers past the 'slanted'
NOT so much when slanted bypasses horizontal cut that is perpendicular to the fibers
>>horizontal bypass slanted is close within a close, primary/inner close ruling
>>slanted bypassing horizontal is more of a flex within a flex/flex again(some specific usages)
.
The Tapered Hinge as side load ballast/adjustment does NOT invoke the speed squared factor.
Contrasting to Dutchman closing later in throw, thru compression, Tapered Hinge force is present at start, works thru tension/not compression
>>and the tensions behind pivot part of hinge control speed, instead of compression/Dutch in front of hinge pivot part invoking speed squared.
.
Have even found step Dutchman usage on ground in bucking especially into top compression
>>first try not to feed cut/close into sheerest vertical force, but to side some (1:30 on clock or so)of less sheer force close
>>then step dutch high side with plastic wedge or block of wood (cube block of wood is what Dent showed for a step difference in felling)
Lower part of hinge folding to that face can have fat part of Tapered Hinge, to pull as Step Dutchman pushes in same direction
>>that is NOT to greatest vertical force focal
>>this can work in slower motion, but best to keep it moving not allowing to seize
>>anti-swing tuft of fibers on high side NOT needed
.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
It was actually after you criticized one of my videos for having no stump shot that I had to explain the reasons to you and EVERYONE else here. Before that you ALL were automatically promoting 2" stumpshot, automatically without understanding the why. Just another example of in the box thinking, doing what you were taught without thinking for yourself.Yessir, GF Beranek needs Daniel Murphy to clarify stumpshot usage for him...yup, sure does.
You are a true gentleman, Jer.
T Collins
Aloha Arborist
Thinking in the "box" has kept me out of this one...
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
temporarily
T Collins
Aloha Arborist
Well yes, doesn't Daniel have a keen sense of the obvious!?! All of our lives and times before that long dirt nap in the old pine box are temporary. If he were giving some foreboding cautionary holophrase indicating that my reference manuals and learned habits are antiquated and will soon cease to aid in my self preservation whilst ploying this great trade... I say, keep it to yourself. Please don't elaborate, let the mystery be. Thinking in the box to me is doing what others have already done and proven to be safe, sound, viable, sustainable, and last but not least profitable. I'm no maverick nor a pioneer, I am a humble journeyman may I live long enough and healthfully enough to one day be called a master(possibly with a diminutive scope of the tree/wood industry). Ours is an old science only the machinery changes and yet the tree remains the champion of time. Yes Daniel frequently much less temporary than we humans.
pantheraba
More biners!!!
You are already well on the way to mastery of self-expression with your writing. Great bit of observation and commentary there.
T Collins
Aloha Arborist
What a morbid yet humorous turn we have taken here, but I may argue that we remain relevant to the thread. D. Douglas Dent's works appear to be an effort to create a standard operating procedure for the many variables in timber works. Like a hippocratic oath we strive to first not kill ourselves or others. I will post a personal anecdote in the Adventures With Apprentices thread soon that is relevant to this train of thought. Work safe all.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
There is a tendency in this industry to follow standards and guidelines without understanding the reasons for them.
NOw things have progressed a lot in the internet age, and the level of knowledge is much dependent on location.
I will say that 20 years ago not one in 5 experienced arborists in the Philadephia area could explain the reason for cutting a clean notch.
Now I'd guess it would be less than half.
So ask yourself this with your tried and true techniques.
WHY?
do you really understand the "why"?
NOw things have progressed a lot in the internet age, and the level of knowledge is much dependent on location.
I will say that 20 years ago not one in 5 experienced arborists in the Philadephia area could explain the reason for cutting a clean notch.
Now I'd guess it would be less than half.
So ask yourself this with your tried and true techniques.
WHY?
do you really understand the "why"?
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
If you don't understand the "why", then you are operating in the box.
Now I'm looking forward to the next time Murphy goes on one of his " I'm the greatest" rants.
Then he'll be telling us how he had to explain stump shot to poor old senile Gerry Beranek, while at the same time screaming about the " Old boys club" here , the members of which all for some obscure reason fail to see his brilliance.
Daniel, how come there is an " old boys club" at each and every treeforum?
How come no matter at which forum you post you fantastic " out of the box" stuff, they laugh at you.
And how come, every time I ask you that question,you ignore it?
Then he'll be telling us how he had to explain stump shot to poor old senile Gerry Beranek, while at the same time screaming about the " Old boys club" here , the members of which all for some obscure reason fail to see his brilliance.
Daniel, how come there is an " old boys club" at each and every treeforum?
How come no matter at which forum you post you fantastic " out of the box" stuff, they laugh at you.
And how come, every time I ask you that question,you ignore it?
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T Collins
Aloha Arborist
Yeah, science bro!
Cute.
Half of them don't know why, and you can't cut one.
Show me just one clean notch from your hand.
Just one and I'll shut up.
Just one single notch, that shouldn't be so hard.
Rico was hard to live with, but he sure had you pegged.
Shoddy work while trying to pass yourself off as a tree felling guru.
Again, show me just one forum, where they don't laugh at you.
Again; just one, that shouldn't be so hard.
Half of them don't know why, and you can't cut one.
Show me just one clean notch from your hand.
Just one and I'll shut up.
Just one single notch, that shouldn't be so hard.
Rico was hard to live with, but he sure had you pegged.
Shoddy work while trying to pass yourself off as a tree felling guru.
Again, show me just one forum, where they don't laugh at you.
Again; just one, that shouldn't be so hard.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Your losing your mind
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Do you or anyone else here that Shigo's science about target pruning is based on a mistaken assumption?
You say science, but what does that mean...
The only scientist that tried to do what we do promptly killed himself.
There is no one with a PhD in the world that understands the practical application of cutting and rigging techniques as well as I do.
Science has many limitations, especially in tree work. Once again without understanding the "why" of the preceding statement, you are stuck in a box.
When I hear someone say "I believe in science" as Butch did or in your case just "science bro"... I realize this guy is left brain imbalanced.
In the meantime can you explain why to make an undercut on a 6" horizontal limb being rigged for a removal?
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
How come every time you and Burnham make fools of yourselves by crossing swords with me, the thread gets deleted?
You have shown nothing but mediocre skills when you post videos, but you love to make yourself out to be God's gift to Danish sawmanship.
And this is how much of a fool you are?
Did you ever wonder why you got lymphoma?
The very vaccines that you love to proclaim saved the world infected you with SV-40, a monkey virus known to cause non-Hodgkins lymphoma, which infected 95 million people from '55-'63 in contaminated polio vaccines. And because of mindsets like yours, even after they found out the vaccines were contaminated in '61, they refused to pull the tainted vaccines, because they didn't want the people to be wary of vaccine dangers. SO off to chemo you go, proclaiming how wonderful vaccines are and those of us that know better must be tin foil hat wearing flat earthers. That's how stupid you are!
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Nutball
TreeHouser
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
There might be a difference between expanding the box vs. jumping clear out of it, into the waiting molten lava.
Come on, Murphy.
Show me a treeforum where they appreciate your genius.
Shouldn't be that hard.
And, yes, I do realize that my leukemia is a direct result of me calling you a fool who can't run saws for shit.
The universe sure works in mysterious ways.
But back to topic, of all the treeforums, where do they not laugh at you?
Show me a treeforum where they appreciate your genius.
Shouldn't be that hard.
And, yes, I do realize that my leukemia is a direct result of me calling you a fool who can't run saws for shit.
The universe sure works in mysterious ways.
But back to topic, of all the treeforums, where do they not laugh at you?
SkwerI
Treehouser
Stig, what happened to the ignore thing?
Good question.
I decided to have some fun with some Murphy bashing after some one told me he was badmouthing me in this thread..
Unfortunately it is very much like shooting fish in a barrel, so I guess I'll go back to ignore once he has shown me a tree forum where they don't laugh at him.
I decided to have some fun with some Murphy bashing after some one told me he was badmouthing me in this thread..
Unfortunately it is very much like shooting fish in a barrel, so I guess I'll go back to ignore once he has shown me a tree forum where they don't laugh at him.
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