Beranek's Coos Bay felling cut vs. Burnham's

[Peter]

Now that you mention in the tree, I do use a variation of the CB on large heavy horizontal limbs instead of a step cut. Never really thought about it as a CB cut, but that is more or less what it is.

Shallow cut on the underside, followed by two vertical cuts, one each side, to leave a vertical strip of uncut wood, either an even thickness or tapered down in a triangle. Then cut the holding wood as fast as possible to pop the limb off and let it fall horizontally.

I'm sure other climbers do this too, in fact I know of two others who do.

 

[pete mctree]

I think many of us do. Be it deeper than usual sap cuts, or just gnawing away at a limb in a sort of random way, trying to reduce the area to cut.

 

[gf beranek]

For a climber it's a great way to trip a heavy limb without putting yourself in harms way. Because it's all done from the high side. Very little chance of getting hit by the butt of a heavy limb kicking back and breaking your leg.

Such a nice feature!

 

[Bermy]

For some big limbs I did a series of compression cuts, like five, then started top cuts staggered to fit between, the first one just enough to see the limb move, then come back to the second, (more if needed)..and as it went the compression cuts collapsed and it all dropped away very easily.

 

[gf beranek]

The Bender....

 

[Bermy]

So it has a name...!
Always a bit nervous to post with the big boys and the big trees in this forum, but hey, might as well jump in

 

[flushcut]

Well if you read his book... nudge nudge. JK. Try the CB you will like it. It has similar properties as a jump cut but maintains the limb orientation a little longer IMO.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Jump in anytime, Fiona!

 

[sierratree]

yep..jump in..........i've taken my knocks on the forum, also........but that what it's all about..........getting good info, discussions, and leaving the ego somewhere else.......

 

[gf beranek]

With enough undercuts, starting out under a limb and working back towards the crotch, you can completely lower, or bend, a heavy limb over. It can ease the dynamic impact of catching a limb in a rope. significantly. I've even lowered limbs down onto roofs with the bender. Saving on tearing shingles and ripping off rain gutters.

the cons of the method is, risk of getting the bar stuck if you're not quick on the draw when sawing the undercuts, Because you have to saw each undercut deep enough for it to close. Which makes the limb settle a little bit for each cut. And then there is the risk of having the tension wood fail and loosing the limb any way. In the latter case try to keep the undercuts spaced evenly apart to avoid creating too much tension in any given area.

And it is the reason why you want to start out on the limb and work inward where the greater leverage is. This method lowers the tension in the holding wood where it is the greatest anyway.

Make any sense?

 

[flushcut]

I used the bender this mourning to swing away a 6" limb away from a new second floor deck before I cut it loose. Works like a charm.

 

[gf beranek]

That it do. Trees whose limbs have stringy wood fiber the cut is very dependable.

 

[woodworkingboy]

"Bender"

 

[Jed]

Thanks for the indirect education boys. I've got to re-read Jerry's paragraph on the Bender. Forgot how it wrks.

Gerry: I'm a residential arborist and, for my purposes, fiber pull don't matter a fig. Barberchairs, however, do. Here's what happened a month ago. Office complex with a HUGE , nasty, headleading Alder, wanted us to get it down. My foreman took one look at it and said, "aright Jed, I'm gonna go check out the rest of the job."

I thought, "No sweat. Jerr's Coos Bay." I pulled out my heavily woods-ported 440. ( I shld have used my 395, but I didn't bring it) and made the side cuts, and DEEP. Razor sharp chain, I revved up quite high, got about bar deep into the back, and THWAAACK!!! Darned thing STILL barber-chaired something dirty, and left me running (without my saw, though it didn't get smashed) for dear life.

Here's my question. Provided that fiber-pull isn't a concern: Why not just ream-in a super deep "undercut" (no diagonal, just a super deep horizontal "face-cut") and then trip it from the back. I'm thinking: worst-case scenario: you accidentally ream too deep, and then, end up with sort of a "reverse barber-chair". Just a bit slab sticking off the back of the stump, which wld seem to be no big deal.

Comments? Criticizims? Concerns?

 

[Bermy]

Thanks Gerry...never used it to 'bend' a branch but I see how it could.
I use it like a controlled snap cut, rather than just one undercut and the topcut, put several in to spread the dissapation of the tension and compression, so it collapses rather than goes...BAM!...helps reduce the spring on the remaining branch that I am sometimes standing on.

 

[gf beranek]

That's idea behind it, Bermy. Lots of ways to ease the pressure and tension forces we encounter. The bender is one. So much of what we learn comes from practical experience and problem solving on the job.

The forces of tension and pressure in a stem can be manipulated in our favor by our understanding of wood fiber, leverage and well learned cutting techniques. Every situation is different and our experience, or lack of, will define the outcome.

There is no simple explanation that can cover all the bases, but it all begins with a good understanding of how the forces of tension and pressure bear on a stem. Whether it be a limb, top or section of trunk wood. The only real difference with either is the scale of the forces we are dealing with. recognizing them and using the appropriate technique.

 

[flushcut]

Thanks for the indirect education boys. I've got to re-read Jerry's paragraph on the Bender. Forgot how it wrks.

Gerry: I'm a residential arborist and, for my purposes, fiber pull don't matter a fig. Barberchairs, however, do. Here's what happened a month ago. Office complex with a HUGE , nasty, headleading Alder, wanted us to get it down. My foreman took one look at it and said, "aright Jed, I'm gonna go check out the rest of the job."

I thought, "No sweat. Jerr's Coos Bay." I pulled out my heavily woods-ported 440. ( I shld have used my 395, but I didn't bring it) and made the side cuts, and DEEP. Razor sharp chain, I revved up quite high, got about bar deep into the back, and THWAAACK!!! Darned thing STILL barber-chaired something dirty, and left me running (without my saw, though it didn't get smashed) for dear life.

Here's my question. Provided that fiber-pull isn't a concern: Why not just ream-in a super deep "undercut" (no diagonal, just a super deep horizontal "face-cut") and then trip it from the back. I'm thinking: worst-case scenario: you accidentally ream too deep, and then, end up with sort of a "reverse barber-chair". Just a bit slab sticking off the back of the stump, which wld seem to be no big deal.

Comments? Criticizims? Concerns?

Maybe you went too deep.

 

[Jed]

I don't know if that's possible Rajan. Seems like the deeper the better... I dunno...

 

[flushcut]

I would think if you went too deep it would act more like a conventional under cut and in need of boring the backcut. I think the physics of a CB is like having a holding strap perpendicular to the bar and the deeper your backcut gets the less wood there is to split. If that makes sense.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Burnam mentions a boring cut earlier in this thread...
Here is a picture of one of the stumps in another thread

This is one of mine... also notice that Burnam may have skipped his face cut that he mentions in his version of the CB cut. I use a face cut as well when I can

 

[flushcut]

The pic on top is that a face cut or the release cut?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

My bad .. second look I believe B skipped the face on that one. That would be the release. I need to clean my glasses. Good catch.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Fixed.

 

[Burnham]

Right, both of you...no face on that one. I was sure I'd get pinched on that bowed over, snow-loaded silver fir.

Jed...our red alder is so prone to BC that sometimes there just is no way to avoid it. If the tree was big enough to bore, you might have had success...but it takes a pretty large alder to have that much working space.

For my money, if I can do it, I've had better luck with alder using my version of the Coos Bay. That would be a face cut, then use of the bar tip from each side to leave a full width hinge, then take out the center strip all in a rush to glory .

 

[Jed]

Thanks a ton for the images.

Yup: mine looked, when finished, a little narrower on the sides than the one of Burnham's in the snow, except that it was about 27" dbh, and--after the cut--had about a twelve foot slab running up the tree

Thanks B: Yeah, the thing was leaning so bad, and had such a heavy top, that I was scared to bore into it. I was afraid it wld uncork the moment I got the tip through the middle, but who knows?

What--if anything--do you guys say to my "reamed-face cut" idea. Did I lose people with that one, or can you interpret inbred?