What's a handshake worth ?

[RegC]

Not much, in my town it seems. I've been here nearly 6 years and still can't wrap my head around it. In my mind, when you shake on a deal it's your oath....be it, free choice, but not one you go back on.

I've lost count of the fake handshakes and polite insincerity here in Victoria. An example via text is as follows. A $1200 pine removal. I spent over an hour with these people. They agreed on my price without hesitation, and asked me to get back to them with a date. I offered them May 1st, expecting them to ask if it could be done sooner....but it turns out they continued searching for cheaper quotes after they'd aged the job was mine:

"Hi Reg, thank you for your call. We had company last night. I appreciate you getting back to me, but May 1 is going to be too long. I have someone landscaping and need to get the tree down in order for him to complete the work in the back. I have someone that can do it this weekend. Best wishes"

At least in this instance I know it's being done. Unlike other jobs where I've driven by and and the tree is already gone without explanation. I often wished I'd moved to Nanaimo, which is further up Island. Apparently you don't get this kind if BS up there so much. It's rough but not full of liars at least. Anyone else get this kind of thing happening all too often ?

A friend of mine (tree company) who used to hire me as a subcontractor when I got here used to make a start on jobs ASAP, with no intention of finishing....even if to just cut some branches off and leave them. He would do it to claim his territory in a sense. I used to laugh at the time, but not now.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I see it around here some. At less than 1 person per square mile you figure out fast who is a d bag and who is not.

I have a buddy who used to pull a bull rack locally. He said the guys that screw you are the locals, your friends.

I guess personal accountability/responsibility is not in fashion any more.

 

[squisher]

That sucks Reg. I had very few of those instances in these parts. But when in business it's bound to happen sooner or later no matter where you are I think.

A written/signed(by the custy) estimate can go along ways in avoiding things like that IMO. I sent nearly all estimates by e-mail, so I could easily include cover letters of worksafe and liability insurance. So the acceptance might come verbally while doing the estimate but I'd get their e-mail and send them the formal quote/documents and ask specifically for a confirmation/reply.

Victoria is, well,.......a nice place to visit!

 

[squisher]

I know you're a top bloke Reg. but doing real business on a handshake is being a bit of a 'hack' on the business side of things. If you want to avoid things like this you need to up your business acumen and have a paper trail of confirmation. Seems when there's documentation involved people are less likely to back out or screw around.

Handshake, cash jobs, no paper trail. That stuff doesn't pay in the end business wise. I recently went through a two year CRA full taxation audit so ask me how I know. Lol.

And I agree it's a crying shame when you can't take someone at face value and their word. Lowlifes. But this isn't the first I recall of you mentioning being messed around by customers. I'd leave the handshake jobs to people you know and set a dollar limit where you want a confirmed signed for acceptance estimate. Or just write up every estimate and ask people to sign for acceptance if they're booking a date.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I wouldn't let that get me down too much, Reg. Some people are jerks and you just need to move on with no worries! Their loss, not yours... on to the next job!

 

[Mick!]

Squish is right, get them to sign a copy of the quote and send it back, then you'll set a date.

You're giving the client the opportunity to change their minds.

Do I do this? No
CBAed as they say, the odd one falls out of bed but there you go.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

It suck Reg. But I try to take a different view of it to get over welches.
They just left a slot open for a better client. That slot will fill.

 

[sotc]

A man's word is only as good as the man that gives it.
I agree with Squishy though, they had the decency to tell you. You don't have a contact until.... you have a contract. Things come up, things change, no sweat. The one that gets me is when the crew Rolls up to the job and it's done. Irritates me. I sent the last guy a $200 mobilization Bill intending to piss him off. It worked😁

 

[Burnham]

Justin speaks some wisdom here, Reg.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It worked!

 

[Fiddler]

Willie took the words right out of my keyboard...

 

[pete mctree]

To some people it is still worth everything Reg. Others frig all & the problem is you can't tell the difference.
My jobs are split between town & out here in the moors where I live & there is a huge difference between the people & how I have to do business. The rural people, on the whole want nothing more than a handshake or a figure scribbled on the back of a card. It is usually no frills work & they appreciate the basics like punctuality, hard work & a smile.
When I work in the towns, it is a different world. Emailed quotes listing everything exactly, quite often a copy of my insurance & a few even ask for qualifications. The pricing is cut throat & even after accepting a price emailed they often back out. They often treat you like crap & can't even manage to have the decency to make a cup of tea. Usually want that bit extra for free, or try & knock you down on price,because you got it done quicker than there gardener said it would take.
Working for people like that, has made me a lot colder & harder on my customers sadly. I genuinely expect them to try & knock me back if given a chance, so I play a tight game until I get paid. I am polite & civil with them, enjoying a good laugh & chat, but I always remain guarded.

Ironically, the last person to try it on was a farmers wife. She swore blind I had quoted to fell 2 trees not 1. Nearly came to blows when her husband turned up, thankfully having a decent dog stood next to me calmed him down. I got paid eventually & even got an apology- people are weird.

 

[Mick!]

Although I have probably done it myself, I find that generalising people by where they live/how much money they have/or are perceived to have is a mugs game.

Take 'em as they come.

 

[Fiddler]

To some people it is still worth everything Reg.

That's not a bad thing...


I've never found that difference between urban and rural customers. Most just want a quality job done in a timely manner for a fair price...there are those outliers here and there though...

 

[RegC]

Good prespective and info. Thanks all.

I think what gets me most, is that I can't say or do anything about it. I want to make them really uncomfortable....but then you get bad reviews on line now days. People pointing phone cameras your way at the slightest hint of confrontation. It's bullshit.

 

[Mick!]

Sometimes I can see clients squirming a bit, anxious to give me an answer there and then.

I calm the situation down "je vends pas le double vitrage" meaning I'm not selling double glazing, call me later, think about it.

I've never paid any mind to online reviews, good or bad.

As a contract climber, it's black and white. If the contractor isn't happy he'll tell you straight. You're good value or you ain't.

Sometimes you and a client just don't sing from the same hymn sheet, don't lose a minutes sleep about it.

But....and it's a big but, if, in hindsight, you feel the pitch was wrong, remedy it.

 

[pete mctree]

Although I have probably done it myself, I find that generalising people by where they live/how much money they have/or are perceived to have is a mugs game.

Take 'em as they come.

I don't generalise- no one is trustworthy unless they prove otherwise. I might not be people savvy, but I do not need to learn a lesson twice

You become a product of your environment

 

[Chris E]

Around here that would be unusual in the sense that they had the decency to let you know as opposed to ignoring your follow up attempts. I was chatting to a couple tree biz owners the other night and we all agreed that managing the business is the most challenging aspect overall.

 

[RegC]

Around here that would be unusual in the sense that they had the decency to let you know as opposed to ignoring your follow up attempts. I was chatting to a couple tree biz owners the other night and we all agreed that managing the business is the most challenging aspect overall.

They only let me know because I was trying to determine a start date. The job was already mine, or so they'd told me.

 

[gf beranek]

It happened to me a couple of times. Once, early in morning, when we pulled up to job site and began unloading our tools to start work. The PO came out and said no!!! It was just a Saturday morning quicky. I didn't fret over it, but the crew expressed their feelings otherwise.

 

[Levi]

We get a lot of price shoppers around here. Sometimes when a client cancels I have a great feeling of relief, other times it is disappointing. It's too bad because often times when people get a cheaper bid it's apples to oranges, they end up getting shitty work done that will cost them more in the long run.

I've consider collecting a $100 deposit from everyone who asks to get on the schedule, seems fair to me.

 

[Magnum783]

I had one happen where they hired someone else to do the prune they scheduled me to do. They did such a TERRIABLE job they hired me to remove it. I laughed knocked the job lickty split

 

[Bermy]

I reckon what is most unsettling is when you don't know (or they don't tell you) that they will be looking for other bids...then you find out that they did and they don't give you an opportunity to offer them a comparison.
It's a bit of bait and switch, when they give you the impression that the job is yours, you relax a bit thinking your price and time is ok, then you find out otherwise.

I have learned with new people, or one-off jobs, to ask if they have a budget, and if I will be the only person bidding. Even if it makes no impression on my price at least I know what the deal is and if someone else gets it, fair enough. My bids always have a 'scope of work' description so at least they have something to compare when they get the landscaper or the neighbour with a ladder giving them a price.

 

[gf beranek]

I hear ya. On a friends referral I was praying the PO would renege. I bid the job so frigging high that I figured they would call me crazy, and they agreed with a hand shake. Oh, baby, there was lot of poison oak involved with that job. But it did pay well.

 

[CoreyYLTG]

Hand shakes are worth exactly what you pay for them. Sounds like Canada is becoming Americanized in that regard.