Vehicle help needed, test fuel pump and ECU

[SouthSoundTree]

So I am at the point where I know that the fuel pump is not pumping fuel on the Land Rover Freelander that I picked up in non-running condition.

I swapped relays, so I think I now need to know if the pump is back, or the ECU is bad.

How can I test these?

Thanks.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I'd go to a Land Rover forum and ask.

 

[SkwerI]

Do you have a test light? See if you have power getting to the pump.

And there shouldn't be anything there so 'Land Rover' specific that somebody with reasonable mechanical skills can't figure it out. They all work pretty much the same way.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I have just gotten my registration to go through at a Rover forum, so I have asked. They are not so quick with answers as here. I figured that the test would be somewhat generic.

So there is a multi-plug that goes to the pump with electrical connections. Would I just turn the key to 'on' and check each electrode with the alligator clip grounded to the frame?

 

[rskybiz]

That would confirm power to the pump if you check it there. Many relays can be switched from spot to spot if you find a identical one swap it out with the fuel pump relay see if it helps. Also a few taps with a rubber mallet on the tank can sometimes help. 02 Fwiw
Good luck 215 v8 in that?

 

[Al Smith]

If you could find a schematic you might be ableto bypass the relay and at least determine if it's the relay not pulling in or the pump.

 

[cybergeek23851]

Sean,

Did this vehicle have a factory Anti-theft immobilizer? I have heard of issues involving no-start conditions related to it, that sound eerily similar to yours. You could check over on Pirate. They have a good following of Land Rover enthusiasts and the forum stays busy. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/26-land-rover/ There are a few of us over there, LumberJack, Brimmstone, AND Beaker I know of at least.

 

[Cobleskill]

You can have somebody turn on the key and test the plug on the tank for power. You only get a few seconds of power before the computer shuts power to the pump down. You can hear the relay kick out. If you don't wait a minute after you turn the key off you won't get any power when you turn the key back to on.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

2.5 v6, small SUV about the size of a Ford Escape 4 door.

I thought that there might be a security thing, but haven't found out anything anywhere, and have spoken to the dealer a couple of times. I figure the dealer would know to expect that. I"ll check into it more, though.

How about checking the ECU?

Thanks, all.

 

[Al Smith]

One more thing which is often over looked .Most if not all vehicals produced in the last 20 years are equipted with roll over protection switch .Nick named a "Nader switch ". Which in the event of a roll over or hard impact will shut the power off to the fuel pump .

That would be the first place I'd start but first you have to find it's location .If that gets it send me a case of Budweiser .

As far as the ECU places like Auto zone ,Pep Boys ,Parts America can test them but you have to have in place in the car to be tested .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

They do have the Nader switch. Its conveniently marked on the engine compartment wall, showing you where you can't fit a full -sized hand down into a little cranny in order to reset the switch. Seems like the engineers designing cars have no idea that most people working on cars don't have woman sized hands. Thanks for the heads-up.

I'll likely have it towed to my mechanic next week if I can't get it running. I'll have to see if he has an ECU tester. I may see if I can get a car trailer rental to tow it to Autozone first, then to his place.

 

[Al Smith]

Let me give you an example which happened to me.When my daughter was studying for her first college degree she had one of my Lincoln Mark VII's for about two years while she was in Columbus Ohio at OSU .

Her boy friend at the time shoved a freakin gas grill in the trunk and snagged the air ride wiring loose and little by little it bled down until the damned car was riding like it had square tires bouncing on every expansion joint in the road until it set off the rollover switch .

I fumble with that SOB two hours before it finally dawned on me to check the Nader switch which was in trunk on that model .Sure enough that was it .I fixed the air ride ,she had it about another year until she graduated .It's residing now in my shop .

 

[Al Smith]

Okay here's another .Some vehicals are equipted with both a low pressure transfer pump within the tank and an inline high pressure pump outside the tank .Occasionally the HP pump will stick .If so a smack with a rubber mallet will often unstick them .I wouldn't beat on the thing with a 4 pound ball peen though .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I don't think this one has both, based on the diagrams that I have in a service manual.

Seems like some LR models do.

 

[Al Smith]

I'm just full of ideas .If you have access to a well equipted library they often have referance sections .If so if you can find a series of tech manual published by Mitchels they are beyond a doubt the very best of any on technical advice .Often they allow you to copy sections or articles from those manuals which I've done often myself .

The internet is great but this I've found certain things like automatic transmissions etc or highly technical advice on automobiles they like to keep only amonst the good old boys .Control of knowledge the greatest weapon ever invented .

 

[cybergeek23851]

As far as the ECU places like Auto zone ,Pep Boys ,Parts America can test them but you have to have in place in the car to be tested .

If it is the Security stuff(provided it is installed), you'll need the LR specific diagnostics tool(Rovacom/Faultmate or something OE supplied). Just because you have a Modis or even a little hand-held OBDI/OBDII/CANBUS tool, you can't see everything, especially on peculiar imports/Americanized bastagechildren, etc. Lucas my arse! It was dead simple until the electronics came into play. it was usually one thing you had to look at on them, the electrical system.

https://blackbox-solutions.com

 

[Cobleskill]

Scanners can't test the computer. That is the last thing to look at. I got a used computer for my Lumina at the junkyard for $40. The case bolts had been eaten away by salt and allowed dirt/salt/moisture to invade the circuitry. Pretty easy to diagnose when it has burned black area on the board.

Pretty easy to hotwire or swap relay. Patience and persistance often are the key to working on the new crap. There is lots of info online.

Corrosion is often the problem, more so with something that has sat for quite a while.

 

[Al Smith]

Well there's a lot of things that will shut down the ECU .No PIP signal for one .

FWIW for somewhere between 3 and 4 years I maintained 40 engine test stands at work .While most of the specific engines used the same "operating systems " specifics such as destinations on the country as per pollution standards such as California and other installed options such as type automatic transmission verses standard dicated the specfic ECU programs . It's all in how the EPROM was programmed .

I'm not saying one out of a junk yard would not work but to work properly it would have to be the exact engine code which varied from year to year and sometimes several times within that same year ,

 

[SouthSoundTree]

So should I get power to the pump if the ECU is faulty? Is there an independent power lead and a signal lead from the ECU, or does the power only go to the fuel pump if the ECU is working properly?

If I have power to the fuel pump or not, what will that tell me about other issues?

 

[Cobleskill]

I don't know how other brands work, but on my GM there was a removable chip that tailored the computer to your vehicle. My computer being in the shape it was in, the junkyard encouraged me to try it without changing the chip first. No problem at all.

 

[Cobleskill]

The computer runs the fuel pump relay for a couple seconds. If it doesn't get a signal from the crank sensor that the engine is turning over it shuts power to the relay down. What other issues?

 

[Al Smith]

Depends on the vehicle and year plus brand .Some of them have a low oil shut off ,some have an over fuel rail pressure sensor . The best thing to do is put it on analizer .However with the diagnostics from a good tech source like http://www.eautorepair.net/app/YearsMakes.asp?gclid=CPGcwMz06LMCFctcMgodFxkA6g you can do trouble shooting with standard test equipment like a volt/ohm meter .

 

[SouthSoundTree]

I think that I have some 're-set' to deal with, or a computer/ security system snafu. Will be calling the dealer tomorrow for some advice, and may be having it towed down to Portland, as I suspect that it is a Rover problem, not a standard vehicle problem.

 

[Cobleskill]

I have had a couple incidents of the fuel pump not running. One was a multi pin connector that had a loose fit. One a power feed problem with corrosion under the hood. Trouble shooting has got much more difficult with all the technology stuffed in there.

You have a plate to take off to access the pump? Know which wire is power at the pump? Check for power with someone turning on the key?

 

[SouthSoundTree]

So I had this Freelander http://freelandertd4.blogspot.com/ (generic internet picture) towed to my house in November. After testing for spark and fuel pressure at the fuel rail on the engine (no pressure) I checked the pump, which is accessible through the cargo area. Very weak noise when turning the key to the ON position. I found an aftermarket pump/ filter/ fuel level sending unit assembly through partsgeek.com for $360, compared to $640 from the dealer.

Finally, after being sick before and after Christmas/ New year, and being gone a week at Christmas, plus needing to find the extra $400 for the parts, I pulled the fuel pump, siphoned the tank of OLD gas without getting any in my mouth, YAY, and got the new one in, only to have to wait to charge the battery as it had gone flat after I'd charged it previously. Started right up the next morning!! Runs smooth. The tires were down 30 psi. I just bought a cheap air compressor and accessories, which I needed anyway for cleaning saws, topping off tires, and such.

Took it for a test drive before putting Amy and Dahlia in it. Brakes and steering and all worked fine. We all went around it in today running errands and to a B-day party. I think Amy is more excited about it than I am. Perhaps its because she is going to try to commandeer it, giving me the Outback, with its better fuel economy for my longer commute. Neither of us have ever had a 24K mile vehicle before. Took it to the car wash and got it shined right up. Needs a little detail cleaning on the chrome rims and hard to reach pots with the car-wash foaming brush. Got home after dark, so maybe pictures tomorrow.

Blue book is just over $6k. I've got $2500, plus a few hundred for tax and tags, into it.

I'm a happy camper.

Erik will have my work pick-up, with all the signage, anytime he needs it, rather than his rough F250. Should help business, and no longer have him using his own rig for work. A step-up in the overall plan.

Next step is to get some Company signs in the windows, as its a work rig, so tax-deductible.