Chain grinder?

[SkwerI]

A friend of mine has a small tree company, 5-6 employees and now running 2 crews most of the rime. A massive expense is new chains since nobody seems capable of hand filing and chains get replaced rather than sharpened. He recently purchased a spinner and breaker along with a couple rolls of chain so he can make his own and save a little. But I realized his dollars are flying out the window on used chains not getting sharpened.

Now I personally have never used a grinder. I have always hand filed and I am pretty good at it. If my saw is dull I will sharpen it. If it needs a new chain I will park it for the day and grab another saw so I can swap the chain after work. But most tree companies don't work that way. Employees run the saws until they won't cut any more then bitch until they finally get a new chain and then repeat the process. I can see a massive savings for my buddy if he can turn those used chains into productive chains again, and it isn't going to happen with somebody hand filing them. He needs a grinder. His one previous experience with a Harbor Freight grinder wasn't good. I told him he needed a Silvey and nothing less. A thousand bucks for a good one. He said he had a thousand bucks in dull chains so it is worth it.

So my question is exactly what grinder does he need? People here have lots of experience with grinders but I have never touched one. I told him I would find him the grinder and the best deal. So I am asking for your help.

 

[SkwerI]

I see Silvey is no longer in business and the only other popular option is Oregon. Google led me to two different versions, a version from China for $200 and another from Italy for $400. I assume the Italian version is the good one. Is this as good as I'm going to find?

Oregon 520-120 professional chain grinder

 

[flushcut]

I have the Oregon 511 with ABN wheels. It works well but I only use it on rocked chains or to correct the chain if my filing gets a little wonky.

 

[SkwerI]

I just found the Oregon 620 with hydraulic adjustment on the teeth. Looks super quick. Bailey's has it at $850 plus shipping but Amazon has it for $480. Oregon 620 grinder

 

[WoodCutr]

I just found the Oregon 620 with hydraulic adjustment on the teeth. Looks super quick. Bailey's has it at $850 plus shipping but Amazon has it for $480. Oregon 620 grinder

thats the one I use, probably can hand file sharper BUT being able to set perfect angles every time (and it does the rakers) is HUGE

the hydraulic clamp is a PITA to bleed when it gets air in it but other than that it works fantastic

 

[vharrison]

I can remember years ago seeing lots and lots and lots of chains hanging in the conex, some looked newer than others. Why they were being “ saved” I’ll never know because they were never used after being put on the peg.
Now, the sharpener is our lead climber, that is the first thing he does when he gets to the office. Nobody sharpens his chain but him. It really doesn’t take that long but he knows what he is doing.
i don‘t think we ever bought a machine to sharpen chains but I would not be surprised if there is one out there. I’ll check this morning.

 

[Treeaddict]

I just found the Oregon 620 with hydraulic adjustment on the teeth. Looks super quick. Bailey's has it at $850 plus shipping but Amazon has it for $480. Oregon 620 grinder

That’s the one I should have bought. I have the one in your first picture (or something very like it) and it works just fine. Hafta get used to it and then it’s easy. I do equal amounts of hand filing and grinding.

 

[BlackSmith]

Still a learning curve to a grinder. Grind to hard and loose the temper.

 

[Mellow]

Hand filing should be a basic fundamental skill for any climber worth his salt. That's all I've got; haven't used a chain grinder in 30 years.

 

[lxskllr]

More than climbers imo. Once you graduate from 'occasional homeowner use', you should know how to maintain your tools. Doesn't have to be perfect, but you should be at least good enough to get work done.

 

[Eric H-L]

More than climbers imo. Once you graduate from 'occasional homeowner use',

Haha, I am still homeowner occasional user but I feel better about using my saw that I know I can sharpen.

 

[Mick!]

It’s a vicious circle with employees.
They don’t know how to sharpen, so you don’t let them sharpen, so they don’t care about blunting the saws cos they don’t have to sharpen…

 

[lxskllr]

So, how's that work in practice? You got a guy in the tree, a guy on the ground breaking stuff down... Guy on the ground hits some dirt or a rock, and... Everyone stands there looking at each other?

 

[Mick!]

So, how's that work in practice? You got a guy in the tree, a guy on the ground breaking stuff down... Guy on the ground hits some dirt or a rock, and... Everyone stands there looking at each other?

Get another saw out of the truck to replace the one that suddenly and magically doesn’t cut.

 

[lxskllr]

What do y'all think about sharpening on the spot? Would that please you, or piss you off? If I dull a saw, I plant my ass on the ground and sharpen it, but it isn't my occupation, and I don't have time constraints.

 

[Mick!]

These days I always sharpen at home in the workshop with a vice, glasses and extra lighting.

 

[gf beranek]

Having a vise to hold the saw steady when hand filing is sweet. Tailgate or bench. Right on!

Out in the field I'd cut a stump especially to hold a saw so I could use both hands on the file.

A stump vise is great for steadying a saw, but as a timber faller constantly moving from tree to tree across the slopes you lose those kind of things to much to make them practical or worth the while.

Grinding is ultimately the timber fallers best bet for keeping their chains sharp. In just a couple of hours you can batch sharpen a whole weeks worth of chains, 10 to 15 loops ready to go, and all sharpened the same.

Yeah the grinder is the ultimate, I feel, for keeping your chains sharp, but the grinder does not come without caveats either. And that's another story all in itself.

 

[Gypo]

Silvey SDM4. Much better than the swing arm versions of silvey and simmington, imo.

SDM4 has been the benchmark around here for decades. Not made anymore. At last production they were around $1800 new. I'd expect to pay that for a used one now. Mine was $600 used 25 years ago.

 

[SkwerI]

Having a vise to hold the saw steady when hand filing is sweet. Tailgate or bench. Right on!

Out in the field I'd cut a stump especially to hold a saw so I could use both hands on the file.

A stump vise is great for steadying a saw, but as a timber faller constantly moving from tree to tree across the slopes you lose those kind of things to much to make them practical or worth the while.

Grinding is ultimately the timber fallers best bet for keeping their chains sharp. In just a couple of hours you can batch sharpen a whole weeks worth of chains, 10 to 15 loops ready to go, and all sharpened the same.

Yeah the grinder is the ultimate, I feel, for keeping your chains sharp, but the grinder does not come without caveats either. And that's another story all in itself.

I'd love to hear the story. Your stories are always great!

 

[Bart]

 

[chris_girard]

I'd love to hear the story. Your stories are always great!

So would I Jer!!

 

[Nutball]

I'm sure they've tested it, but I'm not too keen on trusting the air cooling feature of the $23k grinder. I think it safer to do what the ginder in the above video does, which is a light grind after the main grind. That's what I do with a grinder, though I still think the robotic grinder is a little too aggressive on the quick dehardening grind.

 

[gf beranek]

OK, you asked for it. This is lengthy. While everything I tell you here is for a Silvey grinder it still applies to all chain grinders nonetheless.

Getting the most out of your chain grinder takes learning how to use it first, and until you learn how to use it your results are not going to be what you expect or hoped for, and frustration usually follows that.

That happened to me with the first grinder I bought, a Silvey "Razor-sharp". It didn't come with any instructions and after screwing up a few chains I moved it over to the far dark corner of my garage and covered it up. 'F' that thing, and there it stood for over a year.

After that every time I went into the garage I looked over at the grinder I thought to myself, "Man, I got to learn how to use that thing."

Finally, one day I pulled it out of the shadows and started from square one. I was determined.

Before even mounting a stone onto the grinder tap it with a small hard object, around its circumference. The stone should ring. If it goes "clunk" instead, toss it, because it's cracked and it will explode when you turn on the grinder. And even after mounting the stone tap it again to make sure you didn't crack it while mounting it. In this respect cleanliness is next to godlyness. All mating surfaces must be clean.

Experiment using a short loop of new chain. A good, clean chain, with factory angles, for reference purpose. Be sure to have good lighting, and glasses if you need them. Very important because this is precision.

The Silvey Razor-sharp grinder is designed for sharpening square chain, chisel chain, semi-chisel chain. You can even sharpen round-chain, too, but you have to dress the stone different.

The grinder has two diamond dressers for profiling the cutting edge of the stone. This part is very important to get right. One dresser shapes the top of the stone and the other shapes the side of the stone. The dressers are adjustable, and so it follows the angle they shape the stone is adjustable. Likewise the top and side angles of the stone shape the top and side plate of the cutters. All tit for tat.

In my learning, using trial and error, I adjusted the diamond dressers this way and that way to shaped the stone, numerous different ways, until it would grind a matching factory angle on my chain. I repeated this step until I was sure the diamond dressers were set correctly. Then I locked them down. No need to change them after that.

Remember, the most important part of a square chain is the corner. Strive to get it perfect every time.

On a secondary note, you can dress the stone to achieve a perfect corner and also a full grind on the side plate. Which makes for a really good cutting chain. Getting a full grind on the side plate also minimizes the gullet, but it does come at the risk of nicking the tie-straps with the stone. Which can result in the chain breaking at the tie-strap under extreme loads: in particular when prying on the bar to free a stuck chain. And that was a risk I chose to take.

Setting the dressers to get the exact grind you want is the most important part. But it's not the final, final. There's still a lot more to know.

On the Silvey Razor-sharp grinder the rails that guide and hold the chain have two adjustments. As the stone wears it becomes smaller in diameter. So you're going to have to move the rail assembly forward as the stone wears. That is an incremental adjustment. You only need to move the rail assembly periodically as the stone wears. The other adjustment is a thumb screw for advancing the cutters to meet the stone. That is a very fine precise adjustment for matching up the corner of the chain to the corner of the stone.

Very, very important: clean your chains before grinding them. A dirty chain will contaminate the stone, and that in turn will burn the cutters and roll the chrome over. Really screw up the cutters on the chain.. bad. When the stone is contaminated you will have to redress it again back to fresh clean profile.

Contrary to popular belief a badly worn, (rocked) chain is hell on a stone. And generally speaking, a badly worn chain is a dirty chain, full of baked on crud. Contaminate and ruin a good stone right now.

Best bet to clean a dirty chain is simply by cutting some fresh, clean green wood. But even better with running water while doing the cutting. I always looked for a willow in the creek to do that. Your chains will come out sparkling clean and you stones will last a heck of a lot longer.

I can't think of much more to add, really, but that's the gist of knowing how to use a chain grinder to good effect.


Luck,

 

[Billhowe1]

I bought an Oregon 520 with a tripod and some other stuff from Amazon in 2021, by far one of my best investments. Definitely a learning curve, light "taps" work best to get a good edge without rolling the chrome

 

[Nutball]

My experience with a grinder has also been that it takes pretty much the same skill to sharpen well as it does to file by hand well. I almost went back to hand filing after that experience, but the grinder is easier on my hands when doing several chains for a few hours, and I trust it to get the teeth the same length more accurately than me eyeballing it. There were many inconveniences with the grinder I used. One was having to re-dial-in the length it would leave the tooth after grinding when I switch from doing one side of the chain to the other. It wasn't as simple as flipping the chain around or the grind angle, the chain advance distance had to be readjusted. There's just so many variable involved as well as tolerances of the grinder to worry about. The one I used didn't seem flimsy, but flexed enough to have horrible precision. There was almost no way to accurately set depth gauges with it, because I thought it would stop at the set depth, but the frame would flex so much that I couldn't feel when it hit the stop. The chain clamp was sloppy. It would only pinch one little area, so the vibration and pressure of grinding would tilt the cutter back. The only good thing was it had a reverse switch, so you could get more even sharpening results.