Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
or move the wood shed closer, ideally next to the house !
Today I Learned...
- Thread starter MasterBlaster
- Start date
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pantheraba
More biners!!!
Lol, what does it matter???!!!
Let me tell you why it tottally matters.
You see, i am a lazy bum and when i stuff the stove i would almost rather go cold then have to trek back out to the wood shed (almost 100' away!) and get more wood. I have gotten pretty good at getting my wife to do it, but thats hit and miss and often backfires into me having to do some other chore
Real world stuff!!
We be wood rich!
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #229
So, has anyone tried the toast thing yet???
Steve Mack
Life Member.
Lucky Grills did back in the 80's I think it was maybe 90's, he be 99 now if he was still around.
Not butter though and it wasn't folded.
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Not butter though and it wasn't folded.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/o35Ap8lxRBY" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
More efficient burning does not equal more wood. It equal less wood. Some of the highest efficiency rated stoves are BLaze King cat models. The medium sized ones are capable of 24hr burns and the large king model up to 48+hrs. From one load.
On another note all open fireplaces are meant to be burned with the use of a grate to elevate the fire. If there is no grate it's because it's been burned/rotted away or removed. The grate is meant to allow more air into the bottom of the fire. Efficiency and open fireplace do not belong in the same sentence. The average open fireplace consumes 300-400cfm to support its combustion the average modern insert or stove consumes 20-40cfm.
The best open fireplaces will just approach a zero to maybe plus 10% efficiency. At best. Most, and I mean nearly all, due to the enormous air usage operate in negative efficiencys. The overall effect of using them is a net loss of heat from the home. Whereas a modern insert or stove can easily operate in the 70+ percent efficiency zone.
Open fireplaces are for ambiance and to provide heat to the room they're in. If they happen to be an interior masonry construction some efficiency is gained through the transfer of heat from the masonry back to the home. But not a lot.
High efficiency equals much less wood consumed. Not the other way around.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #232
Folding it is the secret!
rfwoody
Treehouser
If I remember I will try it today if I make some toast in the oven... but it could get messy if with jelly/jam/preserves on the toast.
rfwoody
Treehouser
So far the grate seems to be working better than the dogs --- more heat into the room *and* less wood to keep the fire flaming.
The downside is that the bricks around the fireplace (the bricks facing inside the room between the mouth of the fireplace and the mantle) are not getting hot (thus radiating lots of heat) like they used to with the dogs and the bigger fire.
So it seems we are using less wood to get about the same amount of heat.
Our fireplace is especially poorly efficient, I think because it is too deep -- 32" from back to front of bricks in front.
My parent's fireplace seems very "efficient" for a fireplace -- it will burn you out of the den -- and it is only 20" deep.
I have been thinking of making mine shallower by setting fireplace bricks, etc. in back to see if it produces more heat.
We really enjoy the ambiance of an open blaze in the fireplace -- but only when it is below 50 deg. (F) outside.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #235
If you use jelly you won't taste the butter near as well.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
I like butter and jelly on the bread, but I don't want to taste the plain butter like that, nor I want to get my fingers, lips, beard, bowl, all covered by the said butter.
I had a friend at school, a fat guy. Once in the dinning hall, he took an individual butter portion, unfolded it and put it directly in his mouth, contentiously chewing it (open mouth of course). Just seeing him to do that, it almost made me puke.
I still recall the feeling about 40 years later.
I had a friend at school, a fat guy. Once in the dinning hall, he took an individual butter portion, unfolded it and put it directly in his mouth, contentiously chewing it (open mouth of course). Just seeing him to do that, it almost made me puke.
I still recall the feeling about 40 years later.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #237
It's not as (no jelly) messy as you might think.
We have a fireplace insert. Its huge inside. Feels like feeding the boiler on a locamotive sometimes. It shuts down pretty tight so no complaints there. I really do miss seeing an open fire tho. Still looking for a replacement door with a window. I grew up with wood heat and really enjoy the radient heat. We also have a forced air furnace but i hate it. Dries out my sinuses.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Not all inserts are created equal. I went from a open fireplace to a insert, and it has a nice viewing window. Most modern high efficiency inserts have a window. Do you have a full liner top to bottom in the chimney? Or how is the insert installed?
Nothing beats wood heat. You may not have caught it Frans but I'm a certified chimney sweep now. So I look at a lot of wood burning systems.
Nothing beats wood heat. You may not have caught it Frans but I'm a certified chimney sweep now. So I look at a lot of wood burning systems.
Yes, it is a metal box with its own pipe threaded up the brick chimney.
Its getting hard to find good stoves around here because sonoma county frowns on wood heat these days. They made it illegal to have wood stoves in new construction. You would think i could find a window insert at the recycle places but the metal guys snatch them up
Mick!
TreeHouser
While you’re here Squish...
What’s your thoughts on the burning of softwoods etc in an insert?
Lots of peeps say the pitch coats the liners and present a fire risk...
What’s your thoughts on the burning of softwoods etc in an insert?
Lots of peeps say the pitch coats the liners and present a fire risk...
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #242
I hadn't thought of that!
I bet you do!
I bet you do!
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Softwoods are fine to burn. Ask the whole westcoast. Lol. D.fir, larch, and pine are the overwhelming majority of woods burned in my locale. It's all about temperatures, more so than the wood. Any wood less than 20%moisture content is good to go. Any wood greater than 20% is a recipe for frustration and gooey creosote. Whether it be hard or softwood.
the goal with burning any wood is to keep your flue temperatures up. The nasties of wood combustion start to condense as 212f. So you need to have your exhaust gas exit the top of the chimney at that temp or higher to keep a clean chimney. No chimney will stay forever clean as during startups and reloads you won't have enough heat to have all the creo exit the chimney. Also. The more efficient a stove is and is operated the cleaner the chimney stays because more of the nasty stuff is burnt in the firebox and never even makes it into the chimney. The smokeless burn that modern stoves are renowned for.
Wood, stoves, and chimneys have endless variables that effect the outcome. That's one of the things I find interesting about the work.
I burn close to five full cords on a winter like this one and the last(cold hard winters we're having) and about a cord of that is pine. Zero issues with softwoods here. I monitor stovetop temperatures and stovepipe temperatures and clean my chimney once a year.
the goal with burning any wood is to keep your flue temperatures up. The nasties of wood combustion start to condense as 212f. So you need to have your exhaust gas exit the top of the chimney at that temp or higher to keep a clean chimney. No chimney will stay forever clean as during startups and reloads you won't have enough heat to have all the creo exit the chimney. Also. The more efficient a stove is and is operated the cleaner the chimney stays because more of the nasty stuff is burnt in the firebox and never even makes it into the chimney. The smokeless burn that modern stoves are renowned for.
Wood, stoves, and chimneys have endless variables that effect the outcome. That's one of the things I find interesting about the work.
I burn close to five full cords on a winter like this one and the last(cold hard winters we're having) and about a cord of that is pine. Zero issues with softwoods here. I monitor stovetop temperatures and stovepipe temperatures and clean my chimney once a year.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
A pd of wood has a set amount of btus (can't recall exactly off the top of my head)matters not what the flavour is. The difference between woods is how dense they are and not much else. A pd of wood is a pd of wood. Whether it be oak or pine.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
But to your question Mick. Any wood burned with to high of a moisture content or at to low of a temperature has the ability to coat a chimney with glazed creosote. Not just pine. Pine has lots of pitch in it and I think gets blamed moreso than other woods because of this. When you throw a bunch of pitchy wood onto a fire there's a good chance you're going to get lots of flame/sparks. It just takes one of those sparks to make it up the flue and voila! Chimney fire if you've been slumbering your burns for awhile.
Temperature is the most important thing. You can do like Fran's does and just 'burn hot' and be quite safe. Or you can do like I do with thermometers and burn right in the zone. Max safety and max efficiency.
I'll have cleaned about 300 chimneys this last year. Many people have a very very hard time 'getting' these concepts.
Modern stoves are meant to be burned in a cycle. From a bed of coals you crank the air wide open and load the firebox full. Bring your temps right up to the max and 'burn off' the load of wood, charring it all and burning all the nasty volatile offgassing that occurs at the start of the load at a high temperature destroying the nasty crap that causes dangerous creosote. Then as the load settles in and burns off you cut your air back in steps of 50%. So first to half, then to a quarter, etc,etc. This is where it gets a little tricky. In a modern reburn stove there will be a baffle system on the top with either tubes with holes or a plate with holes (catalytic stoves are different and I'm not referring to them right now). When you are cutting the air back, you are looking for secondary combustion to be occusring from these holes. They will shoot flames out like little blow torches when things are really hot. Or will just ignite a kind of rolling blue flame when not quite as hot. This is the secondary combustion and is the reburning of exhaust(smoke) gases. If you never achieve this state of burn you will never achieve a smokeless fire or highly efficient fire. Smoke exiting the chimney is unrecognized btus that you've cut split stacked, and thrown in your stove and shot straight out the top of the chimney. A total waste.
If your stove is pre EPA and doesn't have a reburn system it is an inefficient boat anchor, it might throw a ton of heat and be built like a tank but you are wasting wood and polluting like crazy. It's just the way it is.
Temperature is the most important thing. You can do like Fran's does and just 'burn hot' and be quite safe. Or you can do like I do with thermometers and burn right in the zone. Max safety and max efficiency.
I'll have cleaned about 300 chimneys this last year. Many people have a very very hard time 'getting' these concepts.
Modern stoves are meant to be burned in a cycle. From a bed of coals you crank the air wide open and load the firebox full. Bring your temps right up to the max and 'burn off' the load of wood, charring it all and burning all the nasty volatile offgassing that occurs at the start of the load at a high temperature destroying the nasty crap that causes dangerous creosote. Then as the load settles in and burns off you cut your air back in steps of 50%. So first to half, then to a quarter, etc,etc. This is where it gets a little tricky. In a modern reburn stove there will be a baffle system on the top with either tubes with holes or a plate with holes (catalytic stoves are different and I'm not referring to them right now). When you are cutting the air back, you are looking for secondary combustion to be occusring from these holes. They will shoot flames out like little blow torches when things are really hot. Or will just ignite a kind of rolling blue flame when not quite as hot. This is the secondary combustion and is the reburning of exhaust(smoke) gases. If you never achieve this state of burn you will never achieve a smokeless fire or highly efficient fire. Smoke exiting the chimney is unrecognized btus that you've cut split stacked, and thrown in your stove and shot straight out the top of the chimney. A total waste.
If your stove is pre EPA and doesn't have a reburn system it is an inefficient boat anchor, it might throw a ton of heat and be built like a tank but you are wasting wood and polluting like crazy. It's just the way it is.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #247
Dumb question, perhaps... does a chimney fire stay in the chimney and just burn itself out?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
If you are lucky. That's were construction, codes, and condition come into play. A old masonry chimney with improper clearances(that is how they are most commonly built) has a much higher chance of burning your house down during a chimney fire then say a chimney fire in a modern class A stainless double wall chimney.
People hear/talk lots about double and triple wall class A chimney. Have no doubts that double wall is the superior class A chimney. Class A is such a superior chimney that it is almost always warrantied against damage from a chimney fire. Meaning not only won't your house burn down but after cleaning out the chimney odds are that everything will be fine and you can carry on. It should be cleaned/inspected properly though. With masonry 9 times out of 10 even if the chimney fire is contained the pumice or clay liner will be ruined and the chimney will need to be re-lined.
Masonry chimneys are supposed to have 1" of clearance to combustibles all the way around them for exterior(backside of chimney is exposed to the outdoors) chimneys and 2"s of clearance for interior(fully contained within the home) masonry chimneys. Very few achieve this effectively.
The best way to prevent loss from a chimney fire is not to have one. many people never ever have a chimney fire through proper burning and cleaning.
People hear/talk lots about double and triple wall class A chimney. Have no doubts that double wall is the superior class A chimney. Class A is such a superior chimney that it is almost always warrantied against damage from a chimney fire. Meaning not only won't your house burn down but after cleaning out the chimney odds are that everything will be fine and you can carry on. It should be cleaned/inspected properly though. With masonry 9 times out of 10 even if the chimney fire is contained the pumice or clay liner will be ruined and the chimney will need to be re-lined.
Masonry chimneys are supposed to have 1" of clearance to combustibles all the way around them for exterior(backside of chimney is exposed to the outdoors) chimneys and 2"s of clearance for interior(fully contained within the home) masonry chimneys. Very few achieve this effectively.
The best way to prevent loss from a chimney fire is not to have one. many people never ever have a chimney fire through proper burning and cleaning.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #249
Do you re-line them?
SeanKroll
Treehouser
What firebox temp and chimney temp are you looking for? How do you monitor these?
What does 'cleaning a chimney' entail?
What does 'cleaning a chimney' entail?
