squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Well obviously they're rolling heavy, but you're sure they're not trust fund kids orrrr something?
Very impressive setup.
Very impressive setup.
The cutting edge of tree removal
- Thread starter cory
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TreeHouser
Must be a helluva trust fund.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #28
Not positive but I doubt it.
Mayer went to Stockbridge for Arboriculture, started small, borrowed heavily (he's the one that said 'as you sign the note for new iron, if you don't feel like throwing up, you didn't buy enough iron), and was in the right time/right place when the feds decided to remove more or less all the trees in Worcester, Mass to prevent the spread of ALB, I believe.
He's also the guy who relates, 'when tree guys ask me how the hell can I afford these cranes, I tell them these cranes get so much work done so fast and so easy, I can't possibly afford not to have them
Mayer went to Stockbridge for Arboriculture, started small, borrowed heavily (he's the one that said 'as you sign the note for new iron, if you don't feel like throwing up, you didn't buy enough iron), and was in the right time/right place when the feds decided to remove more or less all the trees in Worcester, Mass to prevent the spread of ALB, I believe.
He's also the guy who relates, 'when tree guys ask me how the hell can I afford these cranes, I tell them these cranes get so much work done so fast and so easy, I can't possibly afford not to have them
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TreeHouser
Impressive at any rate.
Burnham
Woods walker
Indeed.
Mick!
TreeHouser
Great stuff, there have been similar machines over here clearing diseased trees on the Canal du Midi.
Burnham
Woods walker
I remember Carlito's vids of his generally similar machine. Scary efficient, scary expensive.
So this all looks good to you, Cory? What happens when you take this a couple steps further? Bigger, faster machines with even more reach and potential. One step more, all industry goes the same way. Sure will make work easy. So easy in fact that the only jobs left will be for people that know about fixing machines.
I like what I do now. Doing things in an easier way only works up to a point. After that, lots more people doing nothing.
I like what I do now. Doing things in an easier way only works up to a point. After that, lots more people doing nothing.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #35
I never said it looks good, I simply stated this is currently the cutting edge of tree removal, afaik. And the engineering and capability is amazing.
Down the line, I suppose that machines will continue to reduce the need for manpower in tree work. It's the way of the human brain.
Lots of people doing nothing is apparently fully expected by many folks examining the future.
Down the line, I suppose that machines will continue to reduce the need for manpower in tree work. It's the way of the human brain.
Lots of people doing nothing is apparently fully expected by many folks examining the future.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I wouldn't want the responsibility. Nope!
gf beranek
Old Schooler
The maintenance on that thing would kill me. Does that help?
Fighting technology has been a constant futile endeavour. Even with this, there is still a need for competent climbers, riggers, and arborists. This really doesn't change anything. Is it stupid effective at removing accessible trees, absolutely. But is it the answer for all tree work, no way. While one of these will speed up production, you still can't outpace supply and demand too much or it won't be economical. This is simply the next step after using cranes. And really, most members here have a mini with a grapple, which is very close to the same technology if you think about it. It just does the work on the ground rather than the air.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
Great points, Kyle. And I also agree re your grapple assertion- I think of our wheeled loader as a mini crane, it handles everything up to 15' high! 
Dave, I do have a lot or admiration for Mayer Tree. They are tree men just like all of us and have carved out a large niche in their area with mechanized tree removal. No doubt the amount of hard work, thinking, set backs, and risk taking required to reach the level they're at it is massive and impressive. They do FB land clearing and grinding/bio mass too. When I relate their large company to my 3 person operation, I have to shake my head but we both do largely the exact same work, pruning included, but the scale is not comparable. I guess I'm saying that if you appreciate small operations like yours and others, the Mayer boys are the same thing, just way larger and more productive per man.
If it wasn't Mayer introducing this new machine it would be someone else a year from now. I think there's plenty of work for everyone for now and years to come.
You are one of the most erudite members here at the house, imo, I'm surprised you would have issues with this topic. This machine is just the latest iteration of the long line of technology in tree work. I don't understand the notion you seemed to suggest that further innovation is not a great idea. Even if one would argue that's true, clearly it is completely impossible to stop innovation of new technology. It is the human way since cave men. That's why I find fascinating archeological and evolutionary news, it reminds us that those who existed 200k years ago are essentially identical to we folks today, they simply had far less technology and knowledge compared to today, but they in fact worked day and night to improve their lot which led to their survival and to the technology and knowledge of today. We just have to hope our collective wisdom can keep up with our jaw dropping capabilities.
Dave, I do have a lot or admiration for Mayer Tree. They are tree men just like all of us and have carved out a large niche in their area with mechanized tree removal. No doubt the amount of hard work, thinking, set backs, and risk taking required to reach the level they're at it is massive and impressive. They do FB land clearing and grinding/bio mass too. When I relate their large company to my 3 person operation, I have to shake my head but we both do largely the exact same work, pruning included, but the scale is not comparable. I guess I'm saying that if you appreciate small operations like yours and others, the Mayer boys are the same thing, just way larger and more productive per man.
If it wasn't Mayer introducing this new machine it would be someone else a year from now. I think there's plenty of work for everyone for now and years to come.
You are one of the most erudite members here at the house, imo, I'm surprised you would have issues with this topic. This machine is just the latest iteration of the long line of technology in tree work. I don't understand the notion you seemed to suggest that further innovation is not a great idea. Even if one would argue that's true, clearly it is completely impossible to stop innovation of new technology. It is the human way since cave men. That's why I find fascinating archeological and evolutionary news, it reminds us that those who existed 200k years ago are essentially identical to we folks today, they simply had far less technology and knowledge compared to today, but they in fact worked day and night to improve their lot which led to their survival and to the technology and knowledge of today. We just have to hope our collective wisdom can keep up with our jaw dropping capabilities.
I love science and technology, but that is not what I was questioning. They are like a feast laid before us with unlimited choices and possibilities. Just take a look around and tell me how much collective wisdom is displayed when people have unlimited dietary choices. Has having that made us physically stronger and healthier? I see a common theme of not being able to recognise cause and effect.
Do you have any idea how much stronger ancient man was? The very attributes that allowed primitive mankind to flourish are the same ones that have made us weak as adversity has diminished. The strength and fortitude needed to survive and flourish as a family unit back then was nothing short of phenomenal. The need to make things better, safer, stronger, maximize resources was hard-wired into those that survived. They are what still drive us today but what do we have to overcome? Separated from need those same traits are predisposed to overconsumption and insatiable appetite for more and in the easiest way possible.
The paradox: the stronger the society the weaker the individual. Weak individuals are what cause societies to collapse.
Do you have any idea how much stronger ancient man was? The very attributes that allowed primitive mankind to flourish are the same ones that have made us weak as adversity has diminished. The strength and fortitude needed to survive and flourish as a family unit back then was nothing short of phenomenal. The need to make things better, safer, stronger, maximize resources was hard-wired into those that survived. They are what still drive us today but what do we have to overcome? Separated from need those same traits are predisposed to overconsumption and insatiable appetite for more and in the easiest way possible.
The paradox: the stronger the society the weaker the individual. Weak individuals are what cause societies to collapse.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #42
I think it has made the wiser among us much stronger and healthier. The hot polloi may be struggling if they choose to eat crap food.
The basic challenge remains of making a living, it seems to me.
That is a fascinating premise. Makes sense on the face of it at least.
Mick!
TreeHouser
The paradox: the stronger the society the weaker the individual. Weak individuals are what cause societies to collapse.[/QUOTE]
Lots to debate in your post, but this statement stands out, give me an example of what you’re talking about.
Lots to debate in your post, but this statement stands out, give me an example of what you’re talking about.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Technology is not going to save us.
Learning how to survive like the Amish will.
I can make food out of a pigs head and sausages out of its bowels.
Thankfully someone cleans them first for me!
Learning how to survive like the Amish will.
I can make food out of a pigs head and sausages out of its bowels.
Thankfully someone cleans them first for me!
Interesting point. Ancient man was considerably stronger, and thankfully we all are simply standing on their shoulders. Adversity will come again, in fact, it's arguably here already. Overconsumption, in my opinion, is caused as much by our economic model as anything else. Capitalism is based off of the idea that continuous exponential growth is not only attainable, but necessary for the system to continue to work. Coming off the gold standard only made it worse, because now all we have is the fiat currency inflating as wages remain stagnant. The only things hiding the effects are the facts that just about everyone is in the same boat, and our education system and news programs us with compliance and that everything is normal and ok.
Society is getting stronger, and a handful have access to the levers, while the rest of us simply run on the hamster wheel. I agree with your implication that collapse is imminent, and i argue that it is needed in order to continue our evolution. History has shown time and time again that we plateau for awhile, then major changes happen in a very short time frame. Rome was able to maintain a plateau for a very long time, but many things in their society were a living hell for a large portion of the population of earth. Its collapse was needed and although overzealous religion set back mankind's progress for a millennia, we are in a far better place now than we were.
Your point on foods is interesting, because we do seem to have unlimited variety. However, i contend that we really do not have as much as we like to think. Most everything we have is made from corn, soybeans, and wheat. In the past 100 years, our understanding of chemistry has allowed us to break down our crops into their basic building blocks, and then reassemble them into many different combinations quite cheaply. Scientists are just now understanding the results of this, and surprise, they are not all good. The problem is that cheap food is cheaper than normal healthy food, and the cheap food has been scientifically designed to trigger the brain to think that its what is required. The agriculture and food processing industry is also propped up by our tax dollars, which further distorts the truth.
Our society is based on resource extraction leads to wealth, and the option of working less. This of course is a lie for the majority of the population, as ancient man (pre agriculture) likey had more leisure time than we do now. The difference is that now only a few reap the benefits while most work almost continuously. Before, if the tribe killed a mammoth, everyone ate like gods and lounged, because killing another one would be pointless until the first one was gone, because the meat would likely spoil. Studies have shown that monogamy wasn't likey practiced, so ancient man probably had better sex too. Agriculture was inarguably a major advancement for the species, however it has led to the warring, violent societies that have come since. Technology will always have its downsides.
As technology actually is exponential, we are at a point when things are changing faster than any point of human existence. And our kids will have it change even faster yet. AI is basically here already, and so we will actually create something that is smarter than us. If we have the foresight to stop our endless growth model before it's too late, our descendents will likely live in a world with even better conditions, and it will actually be sustainable. If not, billions will have to die and we can start over from the caveman.
Society is getting stronger, and a handful have access to the levers, while the rest of us simply run on the hamster wheel. I agree with your implication that collapse is imminent, and i argue that it is needed in order to continue our evolution. History has shown time and time again that we plateau for awhile, then major changes happen in a very short time frame. Rome was able to maintain a plateau for a very long time, but many things in their society were a living hell for a large portion of the population of earth. Its collapse was needed and although overzealous religion set back mankind's progress for a millennia, we are in a far better place now than we were.
Your point on foods is interesting, because we do seem to have unlimited variety. However, i contend that we really do not have as much as we like to think. Most everything we have is made from corn, soybeans, and wheat. In the past 100 years, our understanding of chemistry has allowed us to break down our crops into their basic building blocks, and then reassemble them into many different combinations quite cheaply. Scientists are just now understanding the results of this, and surprise, they are not all good. The problem is that cheap food is cheaper than normal healthy food, and the cheap food has been scientifically designed to trigger the brain to think that its what is required. The agriculture and food processing industry is also propped up by our tax dollars, which further distorts the truth.
Our society is based on resource extraction leads to wealth, and the option of working less. This of course is a lie for the majority of the population, as ancient man (pre agriculture) likey had more leisure time than we do now. The difference is that now only a few reap the benefits while most work almost continuously. Before, if the tribe killed a mammoth, everyone ate like gods and lounged, because killing another one would be pointless until the first one was gone, because the meat would likely spoil. Studies have shown that monogamy wasn't likey practiced, so ancient man probably had better sex too. Agriculture was inarguably a major advancement for the species, however it has led to the warring, violent societies that have come since. Technology will always have its downsides.
As technology actually is exponential, we are at a point when things are changing faster than any point of human existence. And our kids will have it change even faster yet. AI is basically here already, and so we will actually create something that is smarter than us. If we have the foresight to stop our endless growth model before it's too late, our descendents will likely live in a world with even better conditions, and it will actually be sustainable. If not, billions will have to die and we can start over from the caveman.
FireFighterZero
Captain Zero!
Ancient man probably had more leisure time??
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #49
I think they did, based on what Ive read about current stone age style hunter gatherer societies, like the Hadza
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #50
Kyle, when you can I think you'd enjoy this article about A look at the varied diets of hunter/gatherer groups contrasted with that of typical modern society.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/w...mentsContainer
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/w...mentsContainer
