SRT

[DMc]

Well, shoot! Sorry for the less then helpful response. I talk about this stuff so much and I forget not every one knows how I use my gear. I do use the Uni as the top ascender, with a foot loop, for my rope-walker system. Very easy and fast. But I also will ascend with just the Uni, Croll and Pantin, no foot loop but instead, left foot on right, so both legs push as in foot-locking. You can also just foot-lock while holding the Uni. Going up has become the easiest part of my day.

Dave

 

[Reddog]

Dave, Why do you feel you need the Croll along with the Uni?
I was thinking of a chest harness that I could hook to the top of the Uni to hold it in place for going up.
Sorry if you have posted this before and i have missed it.
Wally

 

[DMc]

Wally, and anyone else who is having trouble understanding my rig or how I am using it, don't be afraid to ask questions until you do. I would much rather answer the same question several times than have someone get hurt by using something the wrong way.
Anyway, for a rope walker setup you need three ascenders. A top, a middle and foot. The Uni is my top ascender and the Croll is my middle. You don't need three ascenders to climb the rope, and what you described will work, but that is what it takes for a frog-walker system. The difference between frog-walker and walker is how much you use your arms. So even though mine is most like the micro-frog in design, I refer to it as just a walker because I do not use my arms to pull myself up but instead walk up the rope with my legs. Take a look at this link, it shows several different ways of rope climbing along with their names.

http://vtio.org.au/Content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Single-Rope-Technique-i.pdf

Dave

 

[DMc]

Another trick with the Uni is to add friction below it in the form of a revolver carabiner and a ring. The proper ring size will vary with the type and size of rope. Much like using hitches, you just have to use trial and error.

Adding this little bit of friction allows the Unicender to be used in the squeeze mode with much more precision. It also aligns the tail coming out of the Unicender regardless of the orientation of your tie in point. It is important to understand that with this low friction you cannot use the wrap method.

Dave

 

[bstewert]

Or this:

 

[Burnham]

Dave, I'm sure as I can be that you've posted pictures of your walker system all rigged up, but I've failed to find one searching the site...could you re-post something along those lines, please?

Oh...there must be a reason to cut the head off the shoulder bolt, but I can't figure it...fill me in?

 

[DMc]

Dave, I'm sure as I can be that you've posted pictures of your walker system all rigged up, but I've failed to find one searching the site...could you re-post something along those lines, please?

This is an old picture but it does show my system. What it does not show is the Pantin on my right foot and my left foot in the loop.

Oh...there must be a reason to cut the head off the shoulder bolt, but I can't figure it...fill me in?

The reason I cut the head off the bolt is it would not fit. With the head it measured 2" outside to outside, while the opening in the Uni is 1 7/8"

Dave

 

[DMc]

Or this:


View attachment 37254

That should work, Bob. But I really like how fast the Revolver/ring is to set and remove and the Revolver is very smooth when taking up slack.

One other thing I thought of is, the amount of friction under the Uni must be light when not controlled by the tailing hand. If there is too much friction, the Uni will not reliably grip the rope.

Dave

 

[Burnham]

Thanks, Dave. I should have been able to figure out the deal with the bolt length.

Looks like the footloop tether is adjustable, the way you have it mounted to the Uni?

What sort of grip on the Uni do you take as you advance it up line? Just where your left hand is in the picture?

Do you think a roller box would fit between the Uni and the Croll?

 

[DMc]

Right on all counts, Burnham. I do keep my foot tether adjustable as it is what determines stride length. Long strides are faster but shorter strides are much more energy conserving. It is easier to stay upright when you don't reach high with you arms. You are also less inclined to pull with your arms when they are closer to your chest.

I think you probably could fit a chest roller above the Croll, if you did not tighten the shoulder straps going to the Croll. The picture shows them in their most relaxed position, they are much tighter, almost uncomfortably so, for open air ascents. In that position, you might not gain too much with adding a roller.

Dave

 

[Burnham]

The best reason to go with a roller box would perhaps be the improved comfort...I know just what you mean about having the Secur/Croll tight .

On our Sequoia saddles the bridge allows the Croll to ride higher, which can help some with keeping you in line with the rope, and would make it harder to fit in the chest roller.

With my New Tribe ProGear, the attachment point is significantly lower...less of an upright position assist with Croll alone, but offering more space for the roller.

Options...and variables within options .

Thanks again, Dave.

 

[Reddog]

Thanks Dave and Burnham for the pictures and ideas.

 

[DMc]

...Options...and variables within options ...

Burnham, let's discuss saddle fit a bit more, as it can have a very strong influence on whether a rope-walker setup will need a chest roller or not.

To my knowledge, there are only two saddles manufactured with a dedicated Croll attachment point: the Sequoia SRT and the Treeflex. This attachment point is not just a convenience. It actually allows the successful implementation of a walker system without additional add ons. If you look at the picture I posted, you will see that the waist belt is set low, below my pants belt, and has tightening buckles on both sides that allows a tight cinching of the waist belt to allow it to stay there. In order for the Croll to function properly, this support is somewhat critical. The Croll needs to be tight to your body and saddle support should only be coming from your hip and shoulders via the shoulder straps. If any of the support comes from your leg area, it will tilt your body backward with each downward step. This may require some visualization, but when you are hanging from a saddle in a working position, the weight is evenly distributed between your leg straps and your waist belt. This is very comfortable and what we try to achieve while we are working. During a ropewalker ascent, the saddle is not in a "comfort" position, but a support position that helps you maintain an upright orientation, allowing smoother, more efficient use of your legs. If you try to sit back and suspend from this SRT suspension point, you will notice just how uncomfortable it is. But it does a fantastic job when set and utilized as designed from allowing well-coordinated use of your legs for tree ascent.

If the Croll is attached to the same part of your bridge that you normally attach to for working the tree, it will not function to its design. This is where a chest roller would really help in maintaining an upright position while still maintaining the full saddle comfort. But a chest roller is a big enough hunk of gear that thought should be given to your SRT usage. For pure ascents, no big deal. But for multiple ascents requiring work in between, it might become a bit annoying.

Dave

 

[Burnham]

Excellent points, Dave. I lumped both your Sequoia SRT and my Sequoia standard in together in my previous post, and that is a mistake. Forgot completely that you're in the SRT model, and obviously didn't look close enough at your pics to remind me .

Yes, the roller box is not without drawbacks. It's spendy and while not really large, is definitely a hunk of metal to wear all the time. Fortunately, it is very easy to mount and de-mount the ascent line from it. None the less, probably best as part of a system designed for longer, free-hanging ascents rather than the working system you are using.

 

[DMc]

More stuff...

The first picture shows a modification by the addition of a roller sheave on the Uni. It was specifically for tending the tail slack. Still not satisfied with it on RADS but I have yet to try a different rope, such as Velocity. We'll see.

Second pic shows an improvement in the hand ascender sheave attachment. I used the side plate from a glide pulley cut in half. Captures the rope very, very well so no accidental fall outs. This was the first time I had used RADS with the Allgear Pro. Does not work well with the Unicender compared to Velocity.

Dave

 

[pantheraba]

Dave, I appreciate the time and effort you are taking to show and explain your system...and the input from the folks that are discussing it with you. This all reminds me of when I used to read the threads about the different friction hitches and how folks used them. I didn't understand a lot of it for awhile but I could tell there was a lot of good info there. As I evolved from a tautline to a Blake's hitch and then a knut I started understanding better the split tail and eye-eye hitches. It was incredible how much my efficiency in ascending the tree improved.

I am still trying to wrap my brain around some of what I see here..the good thing is that this will be a great source of info when I do try some of this "hands-on".

Thanks.

 

[bstewert]

I like the house and surrounding landscape. Is that a river or a road?

 

[treesmith]

Has anyone considered using a bungee to attach the Croll to the upper ascender (regardless of type), so that as the upper ascender was advanced, it would automatically advance the Croll as soon as you advanced your weight?

In other words, forego the Croll harness altogether, relying instead on the bungee to advance it. Much like the bungee advanced foot ascender used in a rope walker system. The only thing you'd lose is that you wouldn't have the harness holding you in an upright position, but that shouldn't be any major problem. I don't rely on the harness for positioning, but it beats having to advance the Croll by hand!

 

[DMc]

...I am still trying to wrap my brain around some of what I see here..the good thing is that this will be a great source of info when I do try some of this "hands-on".Thanks.

Thanks,Gary. This is my hope. I would like to reiterate, that as a long time climber on doubled rope systems, it was not an easy changeover for me. This sight has a higher percentage of mature climbers then most, so easyer methods of climbing should be relevant. My days of effortlessly moving through a tree with arm strength alone are long gone. Mastering one of the many SRT systems should allow other climbers, to climb as long as they want, and stop if they want to, not because they have to.

Dave

 

[DMc]

I like the house and surrounding landscape. Is that a river or a road?

Bob, thats the Bitterroot river.

Dave

 

[DMc]

Has anyone considered using a bungee to attach the Croll to the upper ascender ...

Take a look on post #28 there is a link to VTIO that shows what you describe, kind-of, with the micro frog set-up. They show a neck elastic but it could just as well go to the ascender. It works well. The down side is you will have a higher work load on your arms compared to a Croll hard mounted close to your body and off your main bridge. With out the Croll support, I prefer a sit-stand method, like foot locking.

Dave

 

[treesandsurf]

What is the mic system on your helmet? Is that so you can talk with your groundwoman while aloft?

jp

 

[DMc]

That is the ValComm 900. They have their drawbacks, like price, weight, and lack of consistent long range clarity. But having hands-free, reliable communication is such a benefit that we use them everyday. They are always proving their worth to the point that I believe communication systems of this type will be common place in our industry in the not-too-distant future.

Dave

 

[pantheraba]

You were prescient about the comms. Sena took us there. You were ahead of the curve for sure.

 

[DMc]

Dang, that's some old stuff you dredged up. The things available today are so much better, more refined and easier to use. I am constantly mentally thanking the wizards that think up all our cool toys.