SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Porty.... .. Just sayin...
Single life support 'biner.
SRT base tie question
- Thread starter bstewert
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Single life support 'biner.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Three scenarios .. please excuse the snap on the flip line. That can easily be replaced with a properly rated crab. I just wanted to give you guys some easy examples of what you could do with a hank of rope that you will be climbing on and what should probably be right in your climbing bag. These can also be done with a rescue 8 like Burnam posted. Add stopper knots where you want. Just saying...
Two bags.. all done.. rope bag and climbing bag. In my climbing bag I have the mini porty, short climb line, two flip lines/positioning lanyards, adjustable friction saver and rescue and regular 8.
Rope bag is 120' hank... Substitute any line I have up to 200 feet... NO biggie.
First.. Positioning Lanyard/flip line, prussic style, substitute appropriate rated biner for the clip though.
Second... adjustable FS/FC ring and Biner....
Third.. a short climb line or back up rope for lanyard.. This piece is about 18 foot... tie a bowline in it.. girth hitch the porty or biner, then cow hitch the rope. You can also use a dead eye, that, BTW, is also in my climb bag.
I also use a porty for the Wraptor... And if I am rigging a tree down.. guess what? There is probably already a porty on the tree for the rigging. Ascend and then switch over for Ddrt.. No biggie.. Just saying..
And yes, Sean.... a biner can do it all in a pinch. I suck at munter though.. never does it stay in my brain solid. One way it works.. the other is suicide..
Two bags.. all done.. rope bag and climbing bag. In my climbing bag I have the mini porty, short climb line, two flip lines/positioning lanyards, adjustable friction saver and rescue and regular 8.
Rope bag is 120' hank... Substitute any line I have up to 200 feet... NO biggie.
First.. Positioning Lanyard/flip line, prussic style, substitute appropriate rated biner for the clip though.
Second... adjustable FS/FC ring and Biner....
Third.. a short climb line or back up rope for lanyard.. This piece is about 18 foot... tie a bowline in it.. girth hitch the porty or biner, then cow hitch the rope. You can also use a dead eye, that, BTW, is also in my climb bag.
I also use a porty for the Wraptor... And if I am rigging a tree down.. guess what? There is probably already a porty on the tree for the rigging. Ascend and then switch over for Ddrt.. No biggie.. Just saying..
And yes, Sean.... a biner can do it all in a pinch. I suck at munter though.. never does it stay in my brain solid. One way it works.. the other is suicide..
rangerdanger
TreeHouser
Here we go, nice and simple. 25' sling spliced with a ct rigging plate on one end, endless loop Prussic, few biners and a figure 8. Compact, neat, simple, I like it. Everything is backed up, easy to understand. Basically Derrick's set up but I switched his rig for a figure 8, since I don't have one.
Stephen, I would love to say your setups look great but in truth they display all the problems and concerns I mentioned earlier. So I am sticking to my recommendation that such systems be used if the situation warrants, such as training, one way ascent only systems, or any other scenarios that would make their need more likely, but not as an all the time, every time base tie.
With the new work positioning tools now available that enable full and fluid bidirectional control on a single static line ( as in not moving as opposed to not stretchy ) I feel no more need for a ground-based lowering system than when climbing on a DdRT system.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Only time I use a base tie in that someone can lower me on is on a sketchy tree I am worried about failing..
Otherwise , my belief, personally pretty much matches yours. Climber will probably have to self rescue to keep from becomming a recovery. You will rarely even see me work a line that is not long enough (doubled) to work any particular tree.
So no.. not all the time.. Just when I feel the added safety is required.
Otherwise , my belief, personally pretty much matches yours. Climber will probably have to self rescue to keep from becomming a recovery. You will rarely even see me work a line that is not long enough (doubled) to work any particular tree.
So no.. not all the time.. Just when I feel the added safety is required.
pigwot
M's, Juniper's, Lowen’s, and Inge’s Grandpa
Last week at the ISA Shade Tree Symposium talk of base tie-offs melted into talk of the possibility of new industry 'standards' specifying two ropes minimum at all times, as in Rope Access work (towers).
Seems odd, but what I believe I was hearing is that ISA/TCI/Whomever-looks-at-such are queasy about SRT (gasp!!) only having one rope.
Funny thing is I only ever thought I was using 'one rope' these past 33 years, even with DdRT...
Belay-able base ties are only as good as the groundie who has to manipulate them... make sure you practice.
Seems odd, but what I believe I was hearing is that ISA/TCI/Whomever-looks-at-such are queasy about SRT (gasp!!) only having one rope.
Funny thing is I only ever thought I was using 'one rope' these past 33 years, even with DdRT...
Belay-able base ties are only as good as the groundie who has to manipulate them... make sure you practice.
quabinclimber
TreeHouser
Yikes, if that happens; I will be going rogue on the industry standards....
I basal tie with two trunk wraps and capture the down rope with a long bight of 3 half hitches finished off with a stopper knot. No hardware, all rope.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Graham had a great video for the wraps around the trunk.. Love it. Keep it simple.
Brock Mayo
TreeHouser
SRT loop setup
Not sure if this setup was mentioned yet…
Some FS folks showed me a pretty cool setup variation if you do want the pre-rigged lowering option at the base of the tree and don’t want to worry about having extra rope. They were climbing at lot of old growth and got tired of hiking in a 600 foot rope. Quite usefully if you’re climbing large trees or if you don’t want to guesstimate if you have enough rope in the bag.
Set up some kind of separate anchor with a lowering device at the base of the tree, tie the ends of the climb line together with the knot of your choice, rig the belay right below the joining knot on the side of the rope you are not ascending and lock off the belay. If the climber needs to be lowered the extra rope needed comes down in the loop as you lower the person. Sorry the picture is less than ideal, but hopefully it shows the idea (not much rope on the ground).
The same loop idea can be used with a prussic on a standard tie off to lower without any extra rope. Definitely want a stopper knot under the prussic once the load has been transferred to the lowering device.
Not sure if this setup was mentioned yet…
Some FS folks showed me a pretty cool setup variation if you do want the pre-rigged lowering option at the base of the tree and don’t want to worry about having extra rope. They were climbing at lot of old growth and got tired of hiking in a 600 foot rope. Quite usefully if you’re climbing large trees or if you don’t want to guesstimate if you have enough rope in the bag.
Set up some kind of separate anchor with a lowering device at the base of the tree, tie the ends of the climb line together with the knot of your choice, rig the belay right below the joining knot on the side of the rope you are not ascending and lock off the belay. If the climber needs to be lowered the extra rope needed comes down in the loop as you lower the person. Sorry the picture is less than ideal, but hopefully it shows the idea (not much rope on the ground).
The same loop idea can be used with a prussic on a standard tie off to lower without any extra rope. Definitely want a stopper knot under the prussic once the load has been transferred to the lowering device.
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
I like that for an instructional setup but it would never work for production as you cant retail your line, recrotch, or redirect if understand it right.. Thanks for the idea though, I like it for taking a newb up and down or just teaching mechanical ascender use or even footlocking.
Good to read you Brock, you should post more often, its always appreciated!
Good to read you Brock, you should post more often, its always appreciated!
Brock Mayo
TreeHouser
Yeah I'd say mostly for bigger tree access. However, the concept can be applied to the rescue that was mentioned on here. If you have that butterfly knot above your base anchor, grab the tail off the climb line that is on the ground (below the climber) and tie into that butterfly for the lowering rope. No need to pack around extra rope, you get more rope as you lower the person!
bonner1040
Nick from Ohio
Great point!
Oldmilltreecare
TreeHouser
Oh that sounds bad, unless I'm reading it wrong.
If the tree is sketchy and you have concerns about it's structural integrity, should you really be using a base tie off that introduces extra loading factors? i.e.: The compression at your top point!
This force is doubled by the introduction of a base tie off and should only be used if the tree is overly strong.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
No... My tie in would not be above me in the sketchy tree. It would be in another tree, or below me in the tree I am working. Like a belay system. Rarely used, often times I can have a high line that I am tied onto Ddrt.
ch74
TreeHouser
clove hitch around the tree is how i normally do it...if u need to be lowered well never thought of it...lol..but clove does hold strong one of my fav knots for cylinder shaped objects...
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Clove can roll out. Be wise to back it up with a 1/2 hitch or something.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
For sure!
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Two round turns with the rope bag full of rope, then a couple half-hitches on a bight to lock off. Lowering the climber is just like old-school trunk wraps for lowering wood. If you have to joint two ropes, there is no hardware to have work around with the knot.
You could join with the rope that Nick is suggesting for a slim, second line, in his other thread.
No hardware pulling the rope down when tension is slacked.
You could join with the rope that Nick is suggesting for a slim, second line, in his other thread.
No hardware pulling the rope down when tension is slacked.
ch74
TreeHouser
yea ty i forgot to add the two half hitches in my comment ....sorry
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
One thing nice about the TH... We all seem to care about each others safety.
ch74
TreeHouser
i have noticed that and how willing everyone is to help....
Burnham
Woods walker
Glad to hear of the backup half hitches...I was sweating for you there for a minute. Still, far better choices available, son. Do some reading in this thread and pay heed, my friend .
And welcome!
.And welcome!
ch74
TreeHouser
Sorry, Mr. Burnham thanks for the complement and the care, bout the clove hitch..lol..Yes sir i always back it up with a half hitch and some . Im just usiing this set up just to get into the tree and get use to climbing srt i was going to research and good base tie that i dont have to unravel all my rope cause i have 200' of xtc fire... But thanks again Mr, Burnham and thanks for the welcome...
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