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Pulling big ones

Steve Mack

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I would have preferred one of them as well.

Before the tirfor it was a Forrest Devil/Trewhella. You'd need a big canoe for one of those.

Pulled a lot of big trees over or out with one. One really big Grey Gum, about 50 degree lean over a house. Had two of them on it and it worked, crazy days back then.

Twelve ton straight pull with 6ft handle, no snatch block. Used to use a bit of waterpipe extention on the handle sometimes with the snatch block, don't know what pull that was.

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Bermy

Acolyte of the short bar
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Tasmania
We've got two Tifors on our rescue truck, yep, bomb proof.
Would not want to lug one around the bush unless absolutely necessary, they are weighty
 

chris_girard

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Gilmanton, N.H.
I'm really surprised I was not familiar with Tirfor pullers until early 1990s. Around Ft. Bragg I knew of only 2 people that had them. My early research revealed the design went back to the 1940s, but it was originally developed in the latter 1920s. By all the data I have reviewed on the machine it appears to be a 'rock-solid' piece of engineering.

Good stuf Jerr! I hadn't heard of the Tirfor winches until just a few years back, not sure why?

Here's an interesting video from Blair Glenn using his Tirfor.

(79) A CALCULATED RISK (also spur damage) - YouTube
 

theTreeSpyder

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547
Precise Application:
Should a line of tension (or wedge push/lift) serve against the sideLean any at all?
Or pull pure straight to target across thinnest axis of hinge?
 

Marc-Antoine

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Precise Application:
Should a line of tension (or wedge push/lift) serve against the sideLean any at all?
Or pull pure straight to target across thinnest axis of hinge?
I'd say it depends completely of the wood's quality, like green, dead, more or less/partly rotten, species fibrous/resilient, brittle.
If we can trust the fibers to hold all along during the increase of the angle, straight to target seems the best. A tapered/fatty hinge (increases the fiber's number left in the hinge), a special cut (allows to flex farer with less damages), will help them to sustain the enormous force generated by a heavy side lean or unbalanced weight. But in the (common ) less favorable cases where the fibers give up way too soon just by flexing, the tree would miss the lay with a straight pull. A compensating pull helps at the beginning but doesn't do much anymore when the tree starts to move by it's own. It's worse with the wedges as there's no way to follow the move. At least a vehicle can give some speed to keep up a little.
The ultimate trick is a line for a straight pull and a guy line against the side lean.
Well, at least if the gear can handle the load.:hammer:
 

SeanKroll

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Oct 13, 2016
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Olympia, WA
. A compensating pull helps at the beginning but doesn't do much anymore when the tree starts to move by it's own. It's worse with the wedges as there's no way to follow the move. At least a vehicle can give some speed to keep up a little.

[/QUOTE]
Hang a log on the pull rope

FOGT...by the Man!
 

Burnham

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Western Oregon
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FOGTW...:D.

Never forget the work part of this calling:).
 

theTreeSpyder

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Feb 12, 2016
Messages
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A compensating pull helps at the beginning but doesn't do much anymore when the tree starts to move by it's own.
It's worse with the wedges as there's no way to follow the move. At least a vehicle can give some speed to keep up a little.
The ultimate trick is a line for a straight pull and a guy line against the side lean.
Well, at least if the gear can handle the load.:hammer:
i think in good wood, softer sideLean, is more powerful to pull to focal target across thinness of hinge.
>>making side pulls then is 'feel good' psyche, not trusting tools of hinge etc., and generically doing what works in all, not specializing to type of task.
Would try to force stronger hinge, then in turn let that stronger hinge be a multiplier of that effort applied the whole ride until close/separation.
Pull against sideLean CoG@ 40' w/rope@50' is 10' leverage, but is 50'leverage against hinge to force thicker....
.
i like the word compensating here, as were i would use ballast.
If we can neutralize sideLean portion of force w/ballast, compensating for side pull, all that is left is the forward lean part of the force to deftly carry tree home gracefully at full balance as dream target.
.
And the added forces of wedge or rope are only good while working compressed or tensioned/as stated.
In looking at just the sideLean part of the force total, if we relieve it across with compensating ballast of wedge or rope it starts w/o sideLean (so much)
but then at the end of the wedge or rope work, SUDDENLY that full sideLean force is back, maybe even mad, i've watched this dance.
Wedge or rope input will have only so much force so are choosing to use how much of that forward and how much as compensating ballast, at co$t to the other.
Forces apportioned against sideLean at start, therefore not making a stronger hinge that can usher the whole ride, only the bump start. If we can get movement of the sideLean forward while rope tensioned against as compensating ballast to sideLean, that is a bit different as motion rules as is a squaring factor. But just 1/4 second of movement barely starting and off wedge or rope slack, not looking for this effect.
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Weak, damaged etc. wood might need the side ballast but longer input with it, weaker wood usually lighter, but compromised wood can be heavy.
Fixed angled rope can be as Tapered Hinge of tensioned fiber on the 'off side' (key Dent term).
Truck is good tool, w/plenty of gas on flat, sound, dry ground, loaded with weight, prefer overwhelming force, but only minor used, applied to great tree lever. Plenty of 'Max Headroom' for more force, not on tattered edge of capability, racing, but confidently, easily applied 'Gentle Ben'(bear) force of metered application, not scared run. Truck should be clear of fall, this gives better rope angle too, but best is pulley on lower anchor so as truck pulls forward, tree not lifting up on back end losing traction as go... So, truck can even run now 90 degrees to fall, as long as is out of way, if tree falls on that rope is slack rope when hit, truck can even pull opposite direction than fall etc. many possibilities with simple pulley tool. In all this, even w/o truck, look at gentle ushering of the forces 50,000 times your size, rather than trying to be hero and wear self out (which can be good exercise, done it many times)to bull dawg against force 50,000x your size...
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Harder Leans seems this might change some(?), as tree more committed, shorter fall now, and forcing stronger hinge on own anyway.
Because, from a noon angle on clock, 1o'clock is 5 mins lean, so 50% of potential force leaning forward, to pull other 50% of force on that axis(not sideLean part) forward. So, i mathematically call soft lean @4mins or less, so 40% of potential forward force only 'shows'. 10% per minute on clock for side force works almost to 45degrees, 7.5mins where actual is 70.7%, 1st 5mins tho, thumbrule accurate to about the 1000's to instantly 'see'/decode powering lean and side force. Cosine here is the vertical stand/telephone pole part of force, that is like a battery feeding over to the sine of sideLean and fall. More flexible wood needed for more radius of all motion in softer lean for good control fullest arc.
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In good wood, softer lean, seems always found best to pull to forward target and let Tapered Hinge 'off side' binding fiber act as multiplier to control whole ride more powerfully, than 'routing around' hinge with 'bump start' of compensating ballast against sideLean part of force, that is temporary, perhaps impacts to more sideLean momentarily on compensating ballast relief. Routing force around hinge to more directly fight sideLean to start, does not allow hinge leverage machine to get stronger w/o the force now apportioned against sideLean.
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Even without Tapered Hinge, forcing just thicker hinge w/o compensating ballast bump start, can work to , as the forces can assimilate more of a Tapered Hinge effect/pull pattern within the now larger forced field of hinge fibers, and just autonomously have the farther back 'off side' fibers pulling more as if was slightly Tapered. Real Tapered Hinge, accentuates the Natural effect thru more availability of the fiber positions Nature reaching for, before sawyer cut them off, too happy w/saw. Before cutting those fibers, tree was already not going towards sideLean, now is more relieved into pull of sideLean. Sawyer robbed the available tool in system. Hinge is not so much on what figure out to cut out, but more of what forces to leave behind/don't cut type of view, left available as Nature's tool kit to self correct.
.
This also works in rigging, trying to exert force across thinnest perspective of hinge to make thicker, to in turn, work the whole ride/to close, tearoff. Sometimes that is allowing own weight to pull down to force hinge stronger and then at right time feeding across on that stronger hinge like playing a violin to get this sweetest orchestrated sound from as motion comes to life and just starts to 'breathe' then deftly and cleanly moves across like it ain't nuttin'..
.
ANY physical displacement of space or force (force is that which overcomes space/distance so same thing here)can be diagnosed to simply 2 factors of expression cos/sin, that even commands the stars movements; from where these things were distilled from. ANY......
 

murphy4trees

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Nov 28, 2008
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Philadelphia PA suburbs
invaluable when needed, but often not needed as well. Most often in my expereince. I haven't set up too many guy lines recently. Mostly a good hinge and high pull lines offset to compensate for the lean will do. I always compensate for lean when it's practical.
 

Burnham

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Western Oregon
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As is our wont, here in the Treehouse...we have drifted rather far from the original point of the thread :).

Actually, I love this aspect of how we interact, the give and take. Well done, friends :D.
 
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