Also, do what fids do yall use? I have looked at a bunch, not sure which ones are best, and for those of you that have done PI what size? 11.7mm is somewhere between 7/16 and 1/2, do I go up or down in size?
I would stick with the homemade wire fid for double braids. It's actually easier to use than the push fids. The only step up from the wire fid is a Brion Toss splicing wand, but that's a little bit of an investment.
Are you anywhere near the ocean or a lake? If so, check out a sailing shop. You should be able to get some cheap double braid off the reel to practice on. That kind of shop will often also have the twine and needles that you'll need to do your final whipping.
Rumination, If I lived by the ocean I would be fishing and nothing else! But I may be able to find a sailing shop around one of the lake here. I see where a wire fid can be easy to use, just not my wire fid. It sucks!! I have to go back to the drawing board with that for sure. I will try to find a shop here a bouts , thanks. Adam, I never thought of making a wooden one, but that seems simple enough. Thanks!
Marc, thanks, that helps! Adam, I wish I had thought of writting it down, but I actually had to change some stuff a few times, so I dont really know the measurements. The next one I am going to be a little more careful to measure. Flushcut, I dont know if I can get it loose enough to slip up any more, I guess I didn't taper it enough, and now it's really tight. I am not to worried about saving it, It has been a good learning experience. I will most likely cut it off, practice on some other rope, and then give it another go.
It will go you just need to be patient and pull, milk, and swear but it will go. I use the tubular fids that I bought from Bailey's and I have made a wire fid for pulling.
Flushcut, I have pulled, Milked and invented words that have never been in existence , but I am not yet defeated . I am pretty sure that the eye will be too small to use when done, but now I just want to prove that I can do it. Funny how every thing I do seems to come down to the same answer--- BRUTE FORCE!!!
Flushcut, I have pulled, Milked and invented words that have never been in existence , but I am not yet defeated . I am pretty sure that the eye will be too small to use when done, but now I just want to prove that I can do it. Funny how every thing I do seems to come down to the same answer--- BRUTE FORCE!!!
Ok, so here are a few questions, # 1 how long is a fid length. If you watch a splicing video all measurements are done by fid length. I have a homemade fid, so I do not really know what length my measurements should be.# 2 Is Poison Ivy done with a class 1 splice? What makes it a class 1 splice? Is there a difference between the splice done for say a 12, and 24 strand rope? If these are silly questions I am sorry, I am just new to this.
Thanks
Jeff
1 Fid = 21 or 22 rope diameters. I like to use the 21 diameter measurement because a short fid is a third of a fid, so a short fid is 7 rope diameters and a long fid is 14 rope diameters. If you look at the wikipedia for FID, you can see a chart I nerdily put up there a few years ago so that you can get the measurements without actually using a fid.
Yes, the splice for 12 and 24 strand ropes are very different. Technically speaking, you should be using the Industrial Double Braid directions from Yale, because you are splicing a Yale double braid. However, I'm sure that every splicer would agree that the differences between Yale, Samson, NER and Brion Toss are so subtle that you should just use the one that makes most sense for you. For most people, Brion Toss's directions or the Samson directions are the easiest to follow.
My PI splice took me a good hour and a heck of a lot of pulling to get the final bury. I had to resort to tapping it with a soft malet, massaging the throat, and picking at it with a fid (meyerchin marlin spike) to loosen it up.
You say "resort to" like it's a bad thing! You did what you're supposed to do! Well, except for that "picking at it with a fid thing. You did RESORT to that part! But massaging the throat by flexing it sharply in all directions and even whaling on it with a soft mallet are both good techniques that can make the difference between finishing and not finishing a splice.
Jeff, regarding the size of the eye, I like to measure my eyes in strand-length. Meaning, how many strands are there between these two pink arrows in your splice"
If you can get a higher res pic, I could be more specific, but I find that getting in close and counting the exact number of strands is the only way to reliably repeat eye size. I know that a Poison Ivy tight eye, for me, should be 24 strands long. I have a chart for every rope. I could just share it, but you might do the splice a little different and the numbers would be off. Each person really needs to make their own notes.
Also, do what fids do yall use? I have looked at a bunch, not sure which ones are best, and for those of you that have done PI what size? 11.7mm is somewhere between 7/16 and 1/2, do I go up or down in size?
Leon is right. Stick with a wire fid. Don't spend money on fids right now.
Adam, thanks for the Amazon link! I never thought to look online to buy piano wire!
Jeff, another piece of advice that comes to mind right now is to not be afraid to chop the splice off and start over. You're starting on a hard rope, and it looks used, so you've got a fight ahead of you. New splicers tend to not do the first parts of the splice very smoothly, so that makes running the splice home very tough. I consider myself to be a champ at running splices home. But I've been in splicing classes where a student has told me they just couldn't get the splice finished. I cockily tell them to step aside and watch how a master does it...only to find myself struggling as much as they were. It's not because I'm a pro at running the splices home....I think I've been doing the setup part more smoothly so it makes it SEEM like I'm good at running it home.
Another tip (my wife figured this one out): Anchor the knot overhead and put a harness on and clip in to the half done eye and you can get a lot more pulling power by jumping into the splice. This needs to be done with caution. You need to flex and massage the splice more, but when you are down to that last 1/2", bouncing on it is a good way get a little more oomph.
Another tip: I once spliced a used rope- I think it was 11mm Velocity at the Rendezvous in Mississippi. The rope belonged to Carl (lumberjack). It was used. It did not want to bury. We tag teamed that mofo. Anyone that has met Carl knows that he is not what you would call "dainty." We put a fid through the eye, had him pull on it while I grabbed the throat and pushed it and with that combo, we were able to easily accomplish what I thought was going to be extremely difficult. So yeah- use help. In fact, my wife has helped before and she IS dainty (maybe weighing HALF what Carl weighs!)
OK- I think that's it for now. Keep trying and bringing us more questions. I love seeing that everyone is chiming in and helping out!
Hey Nick, I'm wondering if it is OK or a big No No to reduce friction by applying something like "Seweze" or similar silicone spray thread lubricant? I know friction is a necessary part of the equation, but I'd rather compensate fir n easier bury by adding a few more lockstitches afterwards. Especially cause my physique is non-Mississippi healthy.
I would lean towards a big no no. You can use mechanical advantage to make up for your dainty physique! If you plan it out you could pull the ma rope and have two hands free to massage the splice while working alone.
Nice save Nick! I thought this thread was going to turn bad for a min! Thanks for the advise as well. I was going to work on it today, But I ended up working on a lightning struck tree, this afternoon, and then wanted to play with the kids before I start a 48 hr shift tomorrow. What are the chances that you could do a quick vid that shows up close which strands to pull out for the taper?? I Seem to have some hangup with that part. I am going to try hooking my harness to it tomorrow, (as long as the battalion Chief doesn't catch me) They get really upset about me climbing to the ceiling of the bays! Something about liability blah blah blah. I told them if I fall you aren't going to have to worry about a lawsuit, cause there is no way I am going to live thru that.
Anyway thanks again all!!
Jeff
Something about liability blah blah blah. I told them if I fall you aren't going to have to worry about a lawsuit, cause there is no way I am going to live thru that.
Flushcut, No they dont let us slide down the poles anymore. They said that they had too many ankle injuries, and a few guys that apparently weren't totally awake walked into the hole while going to a call. Heck were I work they wont even give us 2 story stations.
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But I may be able to find a sailing shop around one of the lake here. I see where a wire fid can be easy to use, just not my wire fid. It sucks!! I have to go back to the drawing board with that for sure. I will try to find a shop here a bouts , thanks. Adam, I never thought of making a wooden one, but that seems simple enough. Thanks!
But massaging the throat by flexing it sharply in all directions and even whaling on it with a soft mallet are both good techniques that can make the difference between finishing and not finishing a splice.
