Not good...

[Reddog]

Would it be possible to scrape/rake a fire break and in the event of it looking very likely to lose your place, light a hail-Mary back burn to at the least increase your odds of not losing all?

A few years back it was very dry here and I gave some thought to how I’d do that if it came down to it.

NFPA - Preparing homes for wildfire

There are methods for homeowners to prepare their homes to withstand ember attacks and minimize the likelihood of flames or surface fire touching the home or any attachments. Experiments, models and post-fire studies have shown homes ignite due to the condition of the home and everything around...

www.nfpa.org

 

[Bermy]

Ember attack is the 'silent killer'...houses have been known to burn down hours after the fire front has passed...smouldering embers caught up in eaves and other small spaces finally burst into flame

 

[Burnham]

Would it be possible to scrape/rake a fire break and in the event of it looking very likely to lose your place, light a hail-Mary back burn to at the least increase your odds of not losing all?

A few years back it was very dry here and I gave some thought to how I’d do that if it came down to it.

It might be possible if you had enough space you owned to build two concentric fire breaks, then burn off the interior. But if you just build a single fire break and light off outside that, you stand as good a chance as not of burning someone else's property...and that could be bad on several fronts.

One could be that it would likely constitute arson. Another would be, if you attempted to do so in the face of a wind driven fire (a likely situation if it's hail Mary time) it's very possible your burn would be blown back over your firebreak and be on top of you even quicker. I dunno...not something that would be feasible on my property, maybe it would be on yours, Scott. But iirc you have a couple of acres...that would be a mighty small patch to keep safe with a back burn, unless you could burn off a lot more acres outside your own.

Back burns are chancy business even for the pros. The location, weather, and other conditions have to be just right to make it work like intended.

 

[treesmith]

I agree it would be a Hail Mary for sure. Actually, I'm surrounded by my dad's property. And if it ever came to that, it would be justified, I'd think to save my house.

And no doubt there are a myriad of differences in our situations....terrain, forest structure, etc....

The family trust that owns the property north of us has several thousand acres. I've put out fires on their property three times in the last 20 years. The first time a dead pine had torn down the primary and set the ROW on fire. Me and my help at the time jumped out, called 911, and stomped/beat it out. It was horribly dry at the time, and the primary was still hot, igniting a 50-yard section of sage grass almost instantly. We just happened to come by moments after it happened. The other two fires were less than a mile from my house, both on the side of the gravel road, and I'm quite certain were set fires. My daughters and I got one out, and we, along with one of the owners got the other one out.

 

[Bermy]

In the bush you have to be as self sufficient possible and sensible.
Even just providing a water source for firefighting efforts is a good thing.

 

[Burnham]

I agree it would be a Hail Mary for sure. Actually, I'm surrounded by my dad's property. And if it ever came to that, it would be justified, I'd think to save my house.

Scott my friend, I might make the very same argument of self-justification; I can see your logic...if all that was lost to your back burn was some timberland/farmland/pastures owned by your father, whom we hope would be understanding .

So long as you could be beyond sure that your actions to save your home could not, would not, and did not under any scenario result in some other family losing their home or property.

Any other outcome, as might be perceived by a jury of your peers...you might save your house, only to lose everything afterwards in the courts of law. If your fire burned someone else's house down, you would be in a bad place.

Forgive my blunt language, please sir. But in todays world, even where you have the pleasure of living, personal choice is not ever without possible ramifications, should those choices seriously damage your fellows.

Not trying to hassle you at all, Scott. Only offering a perspective I have come to understand after maybe a few too many bruises from banging into reality, after my over 7 decades of kicking around this planet.

 

[treesmith]

I understand. But it would be near impossible for me to set a blackburn that would get someone else's house. Again, our terrain is quite different from yours, and that would play largely into it. And if a fire ever became imminent so far as my home is concerned, it would already be on family property.

I am most thankful that forest fires are almost unheard of around here. I was simply surmising what might be done in your situation....and wondering if that might be an option.

 

[Burnham]

You are of course correct, Scott. Terrain, fuel type, weather...all make the play. But I have to point out again, this fire that threatened our home ran 17 miles on it's first day, 15 miles on it's second day, and 5 miles on the third day. On a front that ended up being 36 miles wide. Until one has seen that sort of wildfire advance, both speed over the landscape and acreage burned, you cannot really understand the scope of the risk.

I can only add one more comment, my friend. Until this multiple large scale fire event here where I live in western Oregon, I would have said the same thing, and been thankful just like you are for that.

Speaking as a field going grunt reforestation specialist with the USFS for more years than I like to be reminded of ...the last time forest fires of this magnitude (and more) occurred in this part of the what is now the state of Oregon in the USA was...wait for it...

about 375 years ago.

Y'all can accept that, or ask for details whereby I make that statement. I'm happy to back it up.

Soooo...just because they are unheard of today says nothing about tomorrow. And I don't mean some several hundred years away tomorrow, either.

Ask Bermy. AUS is finding this reality out.

 

[Bermy]

So true, places that shouldn't burn, burned...high alpine and rainforests. The water table was so far down they had dried out and boom...dry lightning responsible for the vast majority of ignitions

 

[stig]

Hell, Siberia is burning like crazy right now.
Also unheard of before on anthing resembling that scale.

 

[treesmith]

I’ve been told that years ago, prescribed burns were a norm here. But then, 100+ years ago, much of what is now wooded was then in cultivation.

 

[Reddog]

Burnham, Good to see your area became a evac Zone 0 yesterday.

Have a good day Sir.

 

[Burnham]

Yessir, Wally. It's great news. Thanks for keeping an eye on the available info and posting it through all this.

The weather has been kind to us this week. Might even begin unpacking the truck and car today .

Now we begin the process of helping our friends who were not nearly so lucky as we have been. We will share, because we have that luxury today. It might not have been so, could have easily. I'm pretty sure that only 12 hours more of those hot dry east winds would have spelled disaster for us.

 

[Benjo75]

Glad it's getting better. That would be a harrowing ordeal to have to go through.

 

[Burnham]

Not one I can recommend for a jolly time, I'll tell you.

 

[Bermy]

Good news Burnham, bit of the old 'skin of your teeth'...whew
Helping others is what it's all about, most excellent

 

[rbtree]

Hell, Siberia is burning like crazy right now.
Also unheard of before on anthing resembling that scale.

Yes, stig, since late spring, I believe. As a photographer, I repeatedly noticed and commented that, since the pandemic, the world's skies were likely the clearest they had been since the Industrial Revolution started. Until I noticed the clarity had diminished and then heard about Siberia's situation.

 

[rbtree]

These two images were shot after our skies had cleared out. But, a day before the 2nd image was shot, which was 9/29, some smoke had returned. Not much, thankfully. Both images are of the sun setting over the Olympics. The 2nd image was shot 10/2, and includes The Brothers, the 2nd highest Olympics peak as seen from the Seattle area, Mt Constance to the north being the highest. It was smokier that evening. After that date, we had very foggy days until about the 8th, with some smoke mixed in. Yesterday, it rained a lot, very hard even, which is rare for the area.

 

[Burnham]

Update...rainy weather has moved in these last 2 days, improving containment outlooks all across the western Oregon fires.

It's a weirdness I'll now report...the threats are low now, but I'm experiencing really stressful dreams this last week. All about fighting fire. On my property edges, around my house, directly in and on top of my workshops.

I wake myself up in sweats. I try to keep myself awake so I don't return to those dreams.

This has to be some mild form of PTSD. It is not a pleasant way to spend one's nights. I reckon it will pass. I surely hope so.

 

[lxskllr]

It should get better with time Burnham. Everything's still fresh and semi active. It'll fade over the coming year, with perhaps the occasional occurrence.

 

[Jonny]

Agreed, it often just gets gentler and becomes rarer. Talk to your doc if it really starts affecting your life though. You’re not gonna get sentenced to a lifetime of psych drugs or anything like that, it just might take a little time.
So many mood problems can see great benefits from decent sleep, and if you’re losing sleep or sleeping poorly it can really wreak havoc on your day to day mood and concentration and happiness.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

You'll find they back off some in time B. You have more duty on a fireline than some. That adds to it. For me, its always about the family and fighting to save them. If you had kids.....

 

[ruel]

Try making some whipped cream with peanut butter whipped in. Fat bomb to your stomach. I found it would knock me out within 45 min, and really solid sleep. Not a prescription, but helps keep me from racing brain sometimes

 

[Burnham]

Thank you all.

It just seems like I have no reason to be having any troubles like this. We got through it all just fine. Dear friends took us in, took care of us as only one's best buddies could, and we lost nothing.

We do have some friends who have lost everything...I reckon that could make a play on my mind.

Thanks again. I've usually been considered a solid fellow who can operate effectively when the crap is flying, and I don't remember ever getting these after effects from exposure to the blessedly few traumatic events life has dealt me.

 

[Burnham]

Dang, Sean...I think that recipe might give me nightmares of a different order .