New Choking Crane Sling Stays on Hook
- Thread starter bonner1040
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50 trees per day?? Gracious you must have been running ragged.
Let's see, when I logged with a skidder and one partner, we did about 60 trees/day, that is cutting them from the base with no targets other than occasional save-trees, wacking off the limbs, and skid them out, no clean up.
With a crane, presumably there are plenty of targets, multiple picks for many trees, and full cleanup.
I'd have to see a crane knock out 50 trees/day for 4 months, 6.25 trees/hour
Think of it as yarding with a crane Cory.
Yes the average daily count was about 60 trees a day on the Murphy Canyon contract.
One of the most lucrative contracts Atlas Environmental Services ever landed.
The whole crew was making double wages. My best year for sure at 110K.
Jomo
Yes the average daily count was about 60 trees a day on the Murphy Canyon contract.
One of the most lucrative contracts Atlas Environmental Services ever landed.
The whole crew was making double wages. My best year for sure at 110K.
Jomo
I've yet to be able to do a crane tree removal, but i do industrial work with a crane all the time. If you can certify what they pick, i could see some people using them. It eliminates the shackle, and dropping or loosing a shackle in the truck box. The problem i see is someone not milking the sheath down after connecting, and then you would be possibly open to litigation. Industry has been changing for awhile, slowly eliminating prerequisite skills from trades, and rigging is changing the fastest. Tree work still uses rigging attachments that rely on the rigger to perform properly. However when you bring a crane into the scene, the type of rigging changes to match the greater risk. Slings have to have readable capacity tags, etc. I would consider using the looser soft shackle type where the one stand just passes through the other one to form the loop, as opposed to the one where it is inside of the other one. That way milking the core and cover to set the shackle are not needed.
Like this
And Paul, you don't need a new hook if your hook isn't sprung. You need to have a hook mouse, and if your operator is so dumb and rammy that he hangs the weight of the ball on a sling you need to fire him immediately. Ive thrown pipe wrenches and channel locks at cab windows for lesser offences. Another trick is to use a master link or shackle, so any angle is taken by rigging that can handle it, the hook should just kinda be loaded up and down only.
Like this
And Paul, you don't need a new hook if your hook isn't sprung. You need to have a hook mouse, and if your operator is so dumb and rammy that he hangs the weight of the ball on a sling you need to fire him immediately. Ive thrown pipe wrenches and channel locks at cab windows for lesser offences. Another trick is to use a master link or shackle, so any angle is taken by rigging that can handle it, the hook should just kinda be loaded up and down only.
They can't see 95 percent of our work either, and your spotter should be watching him coming down. If the lag time delay is faster than that someone's gonna get hurt, hes too damn fast. I understand repetition breeds danger, but getting rammy never speeds up anything other than careers. Btw that is a very impressive amount of work, cranes are awesome 
Running a crane is possibly the most demanding trade there is, most operators i know refuse crane work even though the wages are higher. I could def see tree work being very rough on a crane, with dynamic swinging loads being picked at near duty cycle speeds. I hope no one has to learn anything about rigging the hard way, and please do not take my posts as knocking your experience by any means, rather i even commended it. I have worked around rammy COs too, we even have names for certain ones such as dr. Death. The CO should do only what is instructed, as obidently as a robot. When hang ups are a possibility, he must be slowed down or accidents will happen. In our world he could grab a pipe or electrical line that could kill everyone in the plant, so maybe i came up with that risk as my standard for saftey.
No i said the manufacturers hook is ok as long as its moused, and that a shackle connection so the only hook attachment is a single metal to metal connection is what is standard for crane rigging. That is crane rigging standards, not my hairbrained idea. This removes the possibility of a sharp edge on the hook cutting a strap, and if even further saftey is needed a giant shackle that has to be pinned in place and cant fit through the hook space is completely foolproof, and is dramaticly cheaper than a whole new crane ball or block assembly.
I also added if the crane ball is ever hung on the rigging because of time lag in signaling you have major problems with your crew, and will stand by that statement. Just because i am newer to tree work doesn't mean i am illiterate when it comes to rigging and cranes, in environments that are arguably even more dangerous. I wouldnt consider posting in a thread if i was some armchair Internet expert on the subject, rather i have gone to school for this. I was respectful, and there are different ways to achieve the same goal. Telling someone that they need a certain model of gear to use a crane is wrong, as everyone in different fields can attest.
I also added if the crane ball is ever hung on the rigging because of time lag in signaling you have major problems with your crew, and will stand by that statement. Just because i am newer to tree work doesn't mean i am illiterate when it comes to rigging and cranes, in environments that are arguably even more dangerous. I wouldnt consider posting in a thread if i was some armchair Internet expert on the subject, rather i have gone to school for this. I was respectful, and there are different ways to achieve the same goal. Telling someone that they need a certain model of gear to use a crane is wrong, as everyone in different fields can attest.
Who said anything about replacing the crane ball?
The manufacturer's hook sucks for this industry, not the ball itself.
All it takes to get into trouble is the rigging being on one side of a big lateral branch, and the ball n hook on the other side for goodness sakes!
Have you got X ray vision that sees through thick conifer's or somethin?
We have enough accidents in this biz as it is mate.
Spring loaded latch gates, even those that lock and are pinned closed, fail all too often when bent the other way. I've seen it happen many times. The Shur Loc hook by Crosby eliminates the possibility of that happening.
I gather you're such a good CO that your ball hook n rigging never swings about eh?
Gamble with your own well being mate, and quit with the bogus advice to CO's in this biz already, seriously.
Being a CO may be demanding no doubt, but very few die at work compared to treeworkers on the job.
https://www.revealnews.org/blog/tree-trimming-deaths-alarm-federal-officials-and-industry-insiders/
It was hard enough to make ridin the hook legal in this biz, and you n your spring latch hooks are a great way to ruin that progress for all of us.
Jomo
The manufacturer's hook sucks for this industry, not the ball itself.
All it takes to get into trouble is the rigging being on one side of a big lateral branch, and the ball n hook on the other side for goodness sakes!
Have you got X ray vision that sees through thick conifer's or somethin?
We have enough accidents in this biz as it is mate.
Spring loaded latch gates, even those that lock and are pinned closed, fail all too often when bent the other way. I've seen it happen many times. The Shur Loc hook by Crosby eliminates the possibility of that happening.
I gather you're such a good CO that your ball hook n rigging never swings about eh?
Gamble with your own well being mate, and quit with the bogus advice to CO's in this biz already, seriously.
Being a CO may be demanding no doubt, but very few die at work compared to treeworkers on the job.
https://www.revealnews.org/blog/tree-trimming-deaths-alarm-federal-officials-and-industry-insiders/
It was hard enough to make ridin the hook legal in this biz, and you n your spring latch hooks are a great way to ruin that progress for all of us.
Jomo
BlackSmith
Uncivil
Been everywhere done everything seen it all, thank god you're here to save us from ourselves JoJo.
I think we are having a simple misunderstanding, probably due to my inability to explain what I'm trying to. Those hooks are awesome, and since Paul has his own crane he could choose to change the hooks. He would have to to change the one on the headache ball and then the one on his block, because he has a conventional crane. But what if he rents one? I work with many different cranes, and changing hooks is not a possibility for me. So what we do is use a large shackle, one where the pin cannot fit thru the hook. By using this, we convert the crane connection from a moused hook to a shackled, completely bombproof connection. There is no loading short of breaking the hook that can release anything, and nothing can clip in the hook because the pin takes up most of the room.
BlackSmith
Uncivil
Get forty years of heavy construction behind ya Jo then we'll talk safety.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
That being said, I've known and worked with a number of veteran crane operators well experienced in tree work. When I observe them in the cab, it doesn't appear like what they are doing is anything special to them. That's not just between picks either, the way they spend most of their time.
Fifty or sixty picks per day is a lot, but it comes down to whether you are working on flat ground or not with the ability for the crane to easily move about, how much you need be moving the beast, and how much shoring up has to be done that can eat up time. There is the good spot to be laying the trees down too, and that being cleared out as more come in, someone hoping to it to release the cable, all in all an efficient process going on to maximize speed. Windy days don't help either. Those jobs are fun to be riding the hook, but by three o'clock or so I'm starting to shake.
Evan Sussman
TreeHouser
It's the fact that many tree guys don't know how to safely utilize a crane. They cause dynamic loading, cart wheeling, etc.
It's super frustrating for me because I've been going straight to the biggest crane companies around because I want to build a reputation with them so I have access to any crane I need.
There's been so much dump stuff that has happened around here that they don't want to pick anything with branches, that's if they will even consider the tree work period. Since I've been working and talking with them over the past few years I think I'm getting through to them, as they're lightening up.
Some of the stuff I see "competitors" posting videos of just makes me cringe.
BlackSmith
Uncivil
There's way too much money for crane owners in construction to endure the torment of working for people that aren't accustomed to cranes Jo.
Physically CO have the most gravy job in the world, it's the consequences of them messing up ever so slightly that's hard. That's what takes a toll on them. Regular machine operators aren't running machines in constant proximity of people, and if they boom down when asked to cable down etc people can get hurt very quickly. But i agree, a CO is nothing but an extension of the guy working. The good ones are like robots, the bad ones are always trying to help too much. The worst part is when you get one that thinks they know how to do rigging better than you.
And after this epic derailed thread which will need a crane to pick up the pieces (lol sorry Nick), my vote is i like the idea of the choker, but i would wonder if they could be used in straight and basket rigging setups too. My fear is the ropes leave what i assume is a diamond knot at different angles of pull than a regular soft shackle. Is that true or am I misunderstanding how they are made?
And after this epic derailed thread which will need a crane to pick up the pieces (lol sorry Nick), my vote is i like the idea of the choker, but i would wonder if they could be used in straight and basket rigging setups too. My fear is the ropes leave what i assume is a diamond knot at different angles of pull than a regular soft shackle. Is that true or am I misunderstanding how they are made?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Wouldn't it be cool if this conversation was taking place at a Hooters, with an unlimited bar/food tab?
I'm thinking yes...
I'm thinking yes...
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Only misunderstanding is you're still thinking you can have a discussion with him. You have to agree or he'll keep telling you he's great.
flashover604
TreeHouser
Wait...we have to skin cats?
I'm out.
I'm out.
