Mechanical backup to Kong double ascenders

[Burnham]

This is a CMI, double handed ascender. The catalog says it works on 1/2" lines, didn't grab reliably on the ascent however.

I tried this method tioday on a 80' ascent and noticed that the action of forcing the ascender into the microcender dings up the top portion of the ascender. Have you noticed this too Burnham?

Other than that, I felt very confident using the mechanical backup over the VT or distel above the ascender.

jp

I did note the dinging, as you describe, but I found that it was basically cosmetic, so far as my trials have gone...could be a problem in day in and out use. Can you visualize a simple way to pad that interface? Maybe glue some leather to the bottom of the Microcender?

I have one of the CMI ascenders just like yours. I replaced the single handled CMI Expedition in my Tree Frog SRT system with it. I have NEVER had it slip, used on 1/2 inch KMIII, 11.7mm Poison Ivy, and 10mm Sterling HTP. I have never used it footlocking a single line though.

I cannot quite imagine what is going on with yours. Is the cam fully free to swing smoothly on it's pivot pin? Are you making sure to advance and load the ascender parallel to the ascent line? This last is critical with all handled ascenders. Get someone to watch your technique carefully, look for loading one handle before the other, causing the ascender to tip sideways in relation to the ascent line. I don't know what it might be, but it is wrong, for sure.

 

[Burnham]

Cool stuff Burnham. I think you should work as a teacher and consultant after you retire from the Forest Service. I am certain I could get some folks together here in Boise for a training session.

I would promote you, Burny.

In fact the CAA is ALWAYS seeking folks to put on climbing skills workshops or even to add to one.

Thank you both, gentlemen. Your kind words and encouragement are balm to the eyes of this old climber.

You know how the saying goes, "those who cannot DO, teach".

 

[NickfromWI]

Can you visualize a simple way to pad that interface? Maybe glue some leather to the bottom of the Microcender?

That was the first thing I thought of. It was with 2 sided tape...but leather yes. Or maybe a thin piece of felt?

love
nick

 

[Frans]

You know how the saying goes, "those who cannot DO, teach".

I know just what you mean, seeing as that fits me as well.

'The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak'. But much meaner


Not to de-rail but.... One of my pet peeves is having a young/new climber look down at me and say, 'you want me to go out on that limb?, that is impossible for anyone to do, and furthermore it is unsafe'.

Never mind that I would NEVER ask anyone to do something I would not do myself without hesitation.

The only redemption I get is when I do it myself, or have it demonstrated at a climbing skills workshop or competition.

 

[gf beranek]

That'll work.

 

[treesandsurf]

I like it, Pete. I like it alot. I'd probably go for a different knot, like an anchor or buntline hitch to attach the second line, just 'cause the figure of eight knot locks down so tight when loaded, but that's a nothing quibble.

I do think I'd miss the ability to body thrust the doubled line as my system allows...there are points in an ascent via footlock, in conifers especially, that getting by limb whorls is greatly facilitated by that capability.

As for needing a backup...I say it would not, following the normal SRT system protocol of needing two seperate life support capable attachment points to the lifeline mounted at or above center of gravity...only caveat is there is only one tether from the double ascender to your harness, so some might call that a short-coming.

I'm sure you've posted pics of your ascent system before, but I'm curious what setup would allow mechanical ascent and body thrusting in the same setup?

jp

 

[NickfromWI]

Jp-using any double ascender on a doubled rope allows both.

love
nick

 

[Burnham]

jp, does Nick's post give you enough info, or do you want us to explore how this works a little more for you?

Feel free to pm me if you'd rather.

 

[treesandsurf]

I've never used the double ascenders so not sure how you would body thrust with them? If you have the time, it'd be cool to learn

jp

 

[Burnham]

It's the easiest thing in the world...all you do is grab one of the legs of the doubled rope underneath the ascender and pull/body thrust just like you would with a self-tending friction hitch. That leg pulls through the cam and then the cam grabs it, capturing your gain. The only drawback is that it's basically an ascent technique only, not like with a hitch...although you can grab a footlock and thumb a cam open to lower yourself one stroke's worth at a time with your legs, but that's slow going. OK for a slight adjustment in position, but not realistic for downward movement of any distance.

 

[OTGBOSTON]

It's the easiest thing in the world...all you do is grab one of the legs of the doubled rope underneath the ascender and pull/body thrust just like you would with a self-tending friction hitch. That leg pulls through the cam and then the cam grabs it, capturing your gain. The only drawback is that it's basically an ascent technique only, not like with a hitch...although you can grab a footlock and thumb a cam open to lower yourself one stroke's worth at a time with your legs, but that's slow going. OK for a slight adjustment in position, but not realistic for downward movement of any distance.

Only way to fly, IMO. I use a rock exotica dualascender for 90% of my ascents....

 

[Wagnaw]

I wonder why you can't use Rock exotica dual the same way you use a prussic in competitions? I guess there's that side pin...

 

[treesandsurf]

Only way to fly, IMO. I use a rock exotica dualascender for 90% of my ascents....

Any pics of your setup, OTG?

jp

 

[Banned by Squirrels]

I've never used the double ascenders so not sure how you would body thrust with them? If you have the time, it'd be cool to learn

jp

Cannot. Foot lock only...

 

[treesandsurf]

Cannot. Foot lock only...

It's the easiest thing in the world...all you do is grab one of the legs of the doubled rope underneath the ascender and pull/body thrust just like you would with a self-tending friction hitch. That leg pulls through the cam and then the cam grabs it, capturing your gain. The only drawback is that it's basically an ascent technique only, not like with a hitch...although you can grab a footlock and thumb a cam open to lower yourself one stroke's worth at a time with your legs, but that's slow going. OK for a slight adjustment in position, but not realistic for downward movement of any distance.

jp

 

[Banned by Squirrels]

Okay, you got me...


But why? Why, why, why??

 

[treesandsurf]

Okay, you got me...


But why? Why, why, why??

OK for a slight adjustment in position.

jp

 

[Wagnaw]

Or getting over limbs that the line is running over if not perfectly straight down.

OK!!! I just found this video on you tube of someone backing up Kongs in a way that I've never seen. SO.... I thought I'd share and see what yall think. Granted, I don't own any kongs so....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUuXv823xBw

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[NickfromWI]

Wagnaw- interesting vid. But I don't think that is a great backup. The Croll (gold) ascender isn't really the backup. The Croll is the first link in his chain, so really, the Kong is backing up the Croll. But on the other side the Kong is the primary and the hitch is the backup. Not ideal, but I guess it works.

Smooth descent he has, though!

love
nick

 

[Wagnaw]

I like it cause he can switch the one friction hitch from a back up to his climbing hitch without needing to retie it. That's the main reason I usually go up SRT... because I can just set up my friction hitch with a micro pulley like I would climb on and clip it to the top of the ascender. No need to retie in the tree.

 

[Jamin Mayer]

Here is what used the other day during a removal.

SRT with DRT. The advantage here is to maximize every effort of ascending (verses hip thrusting DRT). In addition, you have the DRT ready to descend, limb walk, and get back to your ascender if you have made a decent.

Oh! The swivel pulley is nice too.

 

[NickfromWI]

Jamin, I hear that swivel pulley will open with the push of a button. I've never used it, so don't know for sure. I just don't wanna hear about you in an "Awakenings" thread!!!

love
nick

 

[No_Bivy]

way to much shat........nice mullet

 

[OTGBOSTON]

Oh! The swivel pulley is nice too.

Nice, but a little sketchy........

 

[Frans]

Funny how these devices seem great on the ground, but way up in the tree they start looking mighty funky