Magic Cut for vertical spars, etc
- Thread starter SouthSoundTree
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SeanKroll
Treehouser
Gravity is lighter to bring to the job.
I use wedges a lot as I presume you do to. So it's worth having even if one is a regular user of wedges?
Sure is.
For smaller trees up to 1 foot diameter, I use the lever a lot for falling.
Not the one Fiona shows, but the big boy version.
The small one is just handy when you've misjudged lean on a top, which I guess Sean never does.
For smaller trees up to 1 foot diameter, I use the lever a lot for falling.
Not the one Fiona shows, but the big boy version.
The small one is just handy when you've misjudged lean on a top, which I guess Sean never does.
Mick!
TreeHouser
The lever is great at toppling big chunks aloft when you want, ie with the saw stowed and everyone aware of what’s about to happen.
You can jam it in the kerf to prevent pinching if you can’t be arsed to put a plastic wedge in. Of course it’s metal so don’t hit it.
I took the cant off mine.
I don’t buy the weight thing, you’ve already called up for the big saw, get them to tie on a lever at the same time.
You can jam it in the kerf to prevent pinching if you can’t be arsed to put a plastic wedge in. Of course it’s metal so don’t hit it.
I took the cant off mine.
I don’t buy the weight thing, you’ve already called up for the big saw, get them to tie on a lever at the same time.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
If I'm ever in question about the top, I use a wedge. A large wedge will pound a small wedge for a tipping a top, if swung like hammer. I can push a small top pretty hard. I can wedge over a top with a hatchet if its bigger. If the top is resisting, gutting the hinge from the face-cut is reasonable. Once you have the top on the run a bit, you can more confidently 'tickle the face'.
Mick, I generally will block down logs past the bar length, and try to avoid pulling up bigger powerheads with longer bars, along with repetitiously pulling up pull-ropes that ground crew have to detach from under a log before sending back up. Since I have to tie the pull rope on the top of the spar, before I can move down to my new cutting position, I have to sit and wait.
My preference is to cut with the smaller saw I have, as long as its practical and fuelled/ sharp (all I'm doing is pulling the trigger, dinosaur-juice does all the work), avoid pull ropes when I can, and let my groundman do something else, staying out of the dropzone all-together.
There almost always work to do somewhere else.
Alternately, the groundman can be ready with the loader, having only the loader and log to think about, if I do not want logs in the dropzone. I cut, he drags out of the way, I cut, he drags. Keeps it simpler, IME.
If its just firewood logs, and the bounce doesn't risk anything, I'd rather drop a log on a log on a log, then come down and quickly grab them with the loader, rather than wait on the groundman to slowly do it. Keep from embedding dirt or gravel in many pieces, which are harder to check, than have one or two bottom logs that needs the cut-path cleaned of some gravel or dirt, maybe with one chain sacrificed to do the dirty cutting.
I'm very injury-averse. If I need a pull-rope, I use one. I don't have 'oh shit moments' regularly or anything. If I really scare anything, its a fence or vegetation of some sort, not people, most especially myself. I don't cut my hinges off. I've assessed the lean of a tree a time or two, and worked with or against it.
While I could use a 460 or 461 for ground work, I stick to a sharp 261 a lot. I can take a bit longer to cut, if it's quicker, lighter and less straining on my joints to position. Clearly, if I need a 661 I use it. I've felled with an 880 and 60" bar.
It's not for lack of skill that I'm aiming for smaller and lighter, with less repetitive movement. All we do is eat elephants, one bite at a time. We will be eating elephants for the rest of our careers. I'm looking at it as an ultra-marathon.
Mick, I'm not sure what you're 'fighting weight' is. I used to work with a guy that was 6'3", about 240. He didn't think twice about one-handing the 200t with 16" bar. It hurt my wrist and shoulders. 12" is better. A 193t with metal dogs and a narrow kerf bar does a nice job, like that little Echo zipper you got.
The Magic Cut is worth at least as much as you've paid for it.
Does that mean that unlike your 261, your other saws aren't sharp?
SeanKroll
Treehouser
No, since I have the luxury of having a variety of saw sizes ready to go, on hand, I'll pick up a smaller, lighter saw and take a bit more time holding the trigger down. I use my 193t a lot for limbing stuff up. Residential work has so little trigger time compared to logging. In the ultramarathon, I'm trying to take lower-impact strides, and minimal energy.
I'm guessing my 261 is about half the weight as a 460/461 with a taller, wider bar and wider kerf, even at 20". Usually I keep 28"+ bars on those bigger saws. I'm 5'11". If I was taller, I'd want a longer bar, probably. That being said, I see a lot of people wanting to stand and bend over their work, rather than take a knee. I'd rather squat down a bit or bend over a bit with half the weight. Seems like also, the less fit and finesse overall, the less they bend to make the work easier.
My old boss was 6'3" so wrestling around a 36" all day was not so much to him. My other co-worker would put the 660/ 36" under his arm to lean on, like a shovel. A lot is dependent on worker ergonomics, size and strength.
I wish I had the shoulder of a 24 year old. I was about 25 when I jacked my right shoulder up from rock climbing...Long, difficult, lunging moves are hard in shoulders. I used to wrestle granite, so got a lot of wear and tear from rock-work on trail projects, shoulders, wrists, and elbows.
I guess I stipulate sharp, as a lot of people who can't get a sharp chain rely on more HP, so a 261 would be underpowered to some. You know what they say about the 'average' (present company excepted) residential tree worker, they can file better than farmers.
People also say 193t's suck because they didn't spend $5-10 on metal dogs. 193t's are obviously not 201t's any more than my chip truck is a Kenworth.
I'm guessing my 261 is about half the weight as a 460/461 with a taller, wider bar and wider kerf, even at 20". Usually I keep 28"+ bars on those bigger saws. I'm 5'11". If I was taller, I'd want a longer bar, probably. That being said, I see a lot of people wanting to stand and bend over their work, rather than take a knee. I'd rather squat down a bit or bend over a bit with half the weight. Seems like also, the less fit and finesse overall, the less they bend to make the work easier.
My old boss was 6'3" so wrestling around a 36" all day was not so much to him. My other co-worker would put the 660/ 36" under his arm to lean on, like a shovel. A lot is dependent on worker ergonomics, size and strength.
I wish I had the shoulder of a 24 year old. I was about 25 when I jacked my right shoulder up from rock climbing...Long, difficult, lunging moves are hard in shoulders. I used to wrestle granite, so got a lot of wear and tear from rock-work on trail projects, shoulders, wrists, and elbows.
I guess I stipulate sharp, as a lot of people who can't get a sharp chain rely on more HP, so a 261 would be underpowered to some. You know what they say about the 'average' (present company excepted) residential tree worker, they can file better than farmers.
People also say 193t's suck because they didn't spend $5-10 on metal dogs. 193t's are obviously not 201t's any more than my chip truck is a Kenworth.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I never called myself an arborist.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Probably not average for many decades, either.
Merle Nelson
TreeHouser
Cory, what is the "cutting dirty wood method?"
Stig where can I see the bigger felling bar you use?
Edit - I see Husky has one 130cm and 89cm or so. Might try one.
Stig where can I see the bigger felling bar you use?
Edit - I see Husky has one 130cm and 89cm or so. Might try one.
If you have dirty wood to cut, ya know clean off the worst of the dirt if possible, then cut the wood with either a pushing or pulling chain, depending. The saw teeth need to enter the log where it is clean/dirt free, and exit the log where the dirt is. That way the teeth never actually contact the dirt because the saw chips will blow it off the log as they exit the kerf. Since the teeth never contact dirt or dirty wood, they stay sharp no problemo.
If the teeth hit the dirt first and wood second, then the dirt is dragged all the way thru the kerf and the teeth will dull quickly.
Hit clean wood first, dirt last = good. Hit dirt first, wood second =
If the teeth hit the dirt first and wood second, then the dirt is dragged all the way thru the kerf and the teeth will dull quickly.
Hit clean wood first, dirt last = good. Hit dirt first, wood second =
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Kinda common sense - eh?
I would say so. A number of folks have not been aware of it apparently. I figured it out from necessity- we were logging and skidding the logs thru a deep large mud hole, all the end-most logs were mostly mud covered and had to bucked to 8'6", so we learned to start cutting in a clean spot or at least the most clean spot, or any dirty spot and then proceed properly from there
Merle Nelson
TreeHouser
Ahh, okay. Yes I have used that method or line of thinking. Thanks. Though I will say my experience of the "Good" result is still pretty darn bad.
A friend of mine trucked hundreds of fir piling poles out of San Francisco and I went down with him on a few loads for fun. The construction company that was pulling these poles would frequently break them in the process and we cut the breaks to clean them up for logging truck transport through the city. The 30 plus foot pilings had been driven in an area of the city that had debris from the 1906 earthquake dumped in a bay side wet area. They wanted to stabilize the fill and then they put a huge concrete slab over all that area to park city buses on for decades. Looking at the sides of these poles you would see little white specs of porcelain etc mixed with sand or pieces of sea shell. After rock, nothing quite dulls a chain like porcelain and sea shell. Inside was the most well preserved, tight grain, red fir wood you have ever seen.
A friend of mine trucked hundreds of fir piling poles out of San Francisco and I went down with him on a few loads for fun. The construction company that was pulling these poles would frequently break them in the process and we cut the breaks to clean them up for logging truck transport through the city. The 30 plus foot pilings had been driven in an area of the city that had debris from the 1906 earthquake dumped in a bay side wet area. They wanted to stabilize the fill and then they put a huge concrete slab over all that area to park city buses on for decades. Looking at the sides of these poles you would see little white specs of porcelain etc mixed with sand or pieces of sea shell. After rock, nothing quite dulls a chain like porcelain and sea shell. Inside was the most well preserved, tight grain, red fir wood you have ever seen.
Do that.
It is a handy tool.
Also great for rolling a log that you have to cut into firewood.
You know; cut as far down to the dirt as you can, roll it and cut the rest.
Merle Nelson
TreeHouser
Okay, thanks.
Stumpshot
General Purpose
Might have to look into the Canadian 462 source. We need something in the middle, since with our recent bout of saw trouble about all we have left is the 020 and the Husqy 395XP!
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
I'm very pleased to have followed his advice too.
I even ask myself if I really need to buy a 661 to replace my stolen 066.
Well, maybe anyway
I even ask myself if I really need to buy a 661 to replace my stolen 066.
Well, maybe anyway