Old Monkey
Treehouser
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Hit by lightning twice could mean some splitting has occurred. It might be worth skinning off some of the bark to see if there are any cracks. It might be a candidate for some chain buckling.
How do you align a diagonal?
- Thread starter Jed
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By the way, since this is a facecut thread.
If you look closely at the face in the oak, you can see that he hit it pefectly in first try.
He has not cleaned it up.
And this in cutting from both sides and with only just having ended his apprenticeship.
This is the most talented apprentice I've ever had.
If you look closely at the face in the oak, you can see that he hit it pefectly in first try.
He has not cleaned it up.
And this in cutting from both sides and with only just having ended his apprenticeship.
This is the most talented apprentice I've ever had.
Burnham
Woods walker
Very good point, OM.
Burnham
Woods walker
That is a sweet face, Stig. You're right, he's good.
Old Monkey
Treehouser
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Beware! If easy cutting from both sides is for him, seduced by the Dark Side will he be.
What method did he use on the back cut? What was the order of cuts?
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Problem is I don't need to take any bark off of it to see! It has a nice spiral from the top that widens as it comes down showing the heartwood of the tree! Fortunately, or not, this is on the side I need it to fall to.
I guess I'll have to get pics when it warms up?
I guess I'll have to get pics when it warms up?
Old Monkey
Treehouser
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There is a difference between the tear lightning does down the side of a trunk and vertical splits that could cause troubles when you fall the tree. The lightning damage could just be surface. Skid off the external damage to see if the split goes in beyond the outside.
You can see him boring in behind the hinge.
Then he just ran the saw around the tree untill he hit the hinge on the other side of the tree and stuck a couple of wedges in on the way of course.
That is standard procedure amongst us suave and sophisticated european fallers.
Pictures would be real good Andy.
Makes it a lot easier to give advise, being able to see the tree and it's surrondings.
Burnham
Woods walker
If it is deeply split, you are fortunate that it's on the face cut side. It gets real sketchy if the split is parallel to the hinge, not so bad if perpendicular. Binders is a good plan either way.
sawinredneck
Treehouser
Yeah, I've got to get pics of this thing! I'll try this weekend, it's supposed to warm up. I can't describe it well enough, but it's a true hazard that needs to go soon!
pigwot
M's, Juniper's, Lowen’s, and Inge’s Grandpa
With the red cedar you mention a lean toward the house.
If it were me I'd want a more secure tie-off point to pull from,
not just pulling with a mini.
Of course I know nothing of size, degree of lean, ...
If it were me I'd want a more secure tie-off point to pull from,
not just pulling with a mini.
Of course I know nothing of size, degree of lean, ...
HolmenTree
Banned
Stig from the photo of that oak being felled he did a major flaw, on both sides of the hinge he cut off the strongest part of the hinge, the sapwood. Its just like I would never place a notch in a tree where there is rot or unsound wood at the point of either corner.
Willard.
Jed
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #88
O.K..... At the risk of firmly establishing myself as a butt-kisser--I have to say: Stig, Burnham, Willard, Darrin and Butch, if you feel so inclined, please, feel free to derail away. You guys are hilarious. Of course we're provincial. Darrin's joke was too funny about different=immoral. Also, Yoda and the Dark Side--LOL.
To momentarily re-rail, I might suggest that Willie has the only serious, objective, (non-provincial) point--besides the little gunning issue--about the importance of the horizontal going in first; and that is the levelness thing. Stig: what do you sophisticated Euro-fallers (LOL) do when cutting the diagonal first to insure that the darn thing is level? Do you just go by feel or re-cut or what? I've missed may a lay by inadvertently swinging the darned stob (remember: residential arborist) due to the "swing" produced by an non-level undercut. By the way Stig--I'd gladly go over to the dark side if it would mean that I'd be able to cut as well as you guys. (Except that my little hero-worship problem prevents me, on account of the fact that Jerry doesn't do it that way.) By the way, I may have to add the Scandinavians to the hero worship list, because your stumps are just gorgeous! I can't believe a beginner can cut that well from both sides! Whenever I have to cut from both sides, my stumps look absolutely disgusting. Every mis-match in Jerry's book show up in my cutting! How do you do that!!
Burnham: Good point about the non-straight grain down low.
Pigwot: That's a really interesting method that you use about sighting down the tip of the bar while starting the diagonal on the far-corner first and then "dragging" the powerhead side back to the near corner. I've seen videos of pro firefighter fallers, who naturally leave much higher stumps, do the face that way. Does anyone know why?
To momentarily re-rail, I might suggest that Willie has the only serious, objective, (non-provincial) point--besides the little gunning issue--about the importance of the horizontal going in first; and that is the levelness thing. Stig: what do you sophisticated Euro-fallers (LOL) do when cutting the diagonal first to insure that the darn thing is level? Do you just go by feel or re-cut or what? I've missed may a lay by inadvertently swinging the darned stob (remember: residential arborist) due to the "swing" produced by an non-level undercut. By the way Stig--I'd gladly go over to the dark side if it would mean that I'd be able to cut as well as you guys. (Except that my little hero-worship problem prevents me, on account of the fact that Jerry doesn't do it that way.) By the way, I may have to add the Scandinavians to the hero worship list, because your stumps are just gorgeous! I can't believe a beginner can cut that well from both sides! Whenever I have to cut from both sides, my stumps look absolutely disgusting. Every mis-match in Jerry's book show up in my cutting! How do you do that!!
Burnham: Good point about the non-straight grain down low.
Pigwot: That's a really interesting method that you use about sighting down the tip of the bar while starting the diagonal on the far-corner first and then "dragging" the powerhead side back to the near corner. I've seen videos of pro firefighter fallers, who naturally leave much higher stumps, do the face that way. Does anyone know why?
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Man this thread has really evolved. B and Stig are the best men in the trade to debate the battle between up and down.
Verifying the gunn. Now that is a good quality practice in this work. Whether up or down.
Verifying the gunn. Now that is a good quality practice in this work. Whether up or down.
Burnham
Woods walker
Well now...Stig, I believe you and I have just been complimented by one of the true masters of our trade. That makes a man feel pretty darn good. Thanks, Jerry 
.
.
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
Gary
Burnham
Woods walker
Orrrr...maybe Jer thinks we're the only numbnuts dumb enough to debate the point 
.
.That was a nice post to wake up to, indeed
Willard, I completely agree on the sapwood thing, but if he hadn't cut the rootflares off, there is no way he could have cut that tree with a 24" bar.
Burnham, I just thought of another reason why we cut so low.
Beech logs split real easy. In order to keep them in one piece until they reach the mill or the veneer factory ( particularly the latter, as beech veneer is peeled!) one has to leave the buttress on the log and make sure to buck it where a branch comes out in the top end.
Which is why you cannot buck them to fixed lengths, but have to consider each log individually.
When I worked in Switzerland as a youngster, they bucked everything to fixed length, not having a veneer industry, and some of those logs looked like crap, when they'd been skidded out. All split from the top down.
Jed, I'll get back to your question later, got to go to work.
Man, I love this place
Willard, I completely agree on the sapwood thing, but if he hadn't cut the rootflares off, there is no way he could have cut that tree with a 24" bar.
Burnham, I just thought of another reason why we cut so low.
Beech logs split real easy. In order to keep them in one piece until they reach the mill or the veneer factory ( particularly the latter, as beech veneer is peeled!) one has to leave the buttress on the log and make sure to buck it where a branch comes out in the top end.
Which is why you cannot buck them to fixed lengths, but have to consider each log individually.
When I worked in Switzerland as a youngster, they bucked everything to fixed length, not having a veneer industry, and some of those logs looked like crap, when they'd been skidded out. All split from the top down.
Jed, I'll get back to your question later, got to go to work.
Man, I love this place
Well I'm back.
After another long day of setting facecuts in big beech trees
Jed as to your question about how we maintain levelness of the face when we put the top cut in first.
Practise makes perfect.
That is really all there is to it. Do it enough times and it'll become second nature.
Which is why if I changed my modus operandi and did the horizontal cut first, I know I'd be back to square one and have to relearn it all again.
I took down a large doug fir last summer and decided that the only way to avoid breaking it over a swale in the ground was to use a humboldt with a snipe. So I made my first Humboldt. Worked fine, but that humboldt looked like something made by a beaver OD'ing on crack.
I posted a picture here to general amusement.
But with any method, if you do it enough times and are conscious of what you are doing , you'll eventually master it.
The main thing is to be aware of what you are doing and NEVER getting sloppy.
Back in my pulp cutting days there were two kind of fallers. Those who would just get the trees down any old way in a clearcut ( they are bucked to short lengths anyway, so it doesn't matter if you cross them and break some) and those , like myself, who'd make a game out of picking an exact target for each tree to hit, even though it didn't really matter.
I don't have to tell you which group made the good money in thinnings, where there is hardly any room to fall into, and each hung up tree looses you money, do I
After another long day of setting facecuts in big beech trees
Jed as to your question about how we maintain levelness of the face when we put the top cut in first.
Practise makes perfect.
That is really all there is to it. Do it enough times and it'll become second nature.
Which is why if I changed my modus operandi and did the horizontal cut first, I know I'd be back to square one and have to relearn it all again.
I took down a large doug fir last summer and decided that the only way to avoid breaking it over a swale in the ground was to use a humboldt with a snipe. So I made my first Humboldt. Worked fine, but that humboldt looked like something made by a beaver OD'ing on crack.
I posted a picture here to general amusement.
But with any method, if you do it enough times and are conscious of what you are doing , you'll eventually master it.
The main thing is to be aware of what you are doing and NEVER getting sloppy.
Back in my pulp cutting days there were two kind of fallers. Those who would just get the trees down any old way in a clearcut ( they are bucked to short lengths anyway, so it doesn't matter if you cross them and break some) and those , like myself, who'd make a game out of picking an exact target for each tree to hit, even though it didn't really matter.
I don't have to tell you which group made the good money in thinnings, where there is hardly any room to fall into, and each hung up tree looses you money, do I
Jed
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #95
No you don't Stig: that makes perfect sense. You'll forgive me if I sound a little starstruck in getting to talk (so to speak) with actual timber-cutters, like you and Jerry. Here in the states, we arborists (also forgive me you arborists who are getting to do exactly what you want to do) never, ever get the chance to fall trees commercially. The logging industry here is incredibly slow at present. There are heaps of timber cutters who are out of work even though they have experience commensurate with yours, who are simply waiting in line for a job. Needless to say: some residential, would-be faller with absolutely no commercial experience, has an extremely slim chance of getting to fall a timber strip.
The only reason I have thus elaborated on my sad plight, is because--to agree with your last post--I notice that the guys with the most experience always have the cleanest hinges. We arborists take our experience where we can get it, which is predominantly limited to removing tall conifers via several felling cuts in the stick. The ironic thing is that, at times, the liberties we take with our ability to get the logs to roll out precisely where we mean them to are so great that the cruciality of making a perfect cut outweighs the experience to do so.
I know, I know, I know: "Don't be a dope--use a rope." Etc.
The only reason I have thus elaborated on my sad plight, is because--to agree with your last post--I notice that the guys with the most experience always have the cleanest hinges. We arborists take our experience where we can get it, which is predominantly limited to removing tall conifers via several felling cuts in the stick. The ironic thing is that, at times, the liberties we take with our ability to get the logs to roll out precisely where we mean them to are so great that the cruciality of making a perfect cut outweighs the experience to do so.
I know, I know, I know: "Don't be a dope--use a rope." Etc.
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
Jed... practice does make perfect.
When I was out fallin' large Big Leaf Maples about 2 weeks ago... it was the first time I had been back out fallin' trees in probably 3 years. So I was a little rusty. I'm not the greatest timber faller (will never claim to be either), but was always pretty good at catchin' the far side as I made my second cut. Neeless to say... it took me till about the 5th or 6th tree to get back into the game.
I was kinda embarrassed at how far I missed the far side on the first tree I laid into...
Gary
When I was out fallin' large Big Leaf Maples about 2 weeks ago... it was the first time I had been back out fallin' trees in probably 3 years. So I was a little rusty. I'm not the greatest timber faller (will never claim to be either), but was always pretty good at catchin' the far side as I made my second cut. Neeless to say... it took me till about the 5th or 6th tree to get back into the game.
I was kinda embarrassed at how far I missed the far side on the first tree I laid into... Gary
SouthSoundTree
Treehouser
Burnham, we call Thuja plicata, western redcedar/ red cedar. In Oklahoma, and Illinois (probably amongst other places), I believe they call some type of juniper as red cedar.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Matching up the cuts is kind of like riding a bicycle to me. Though my preference is to leave a gap at the hinge and bust the undercut out with the axe. Least for the assurance that it offers to widen the face. But it also exposes any errors a lot better and by it they are more likely to be corrected.
Burnham
Woods walker
As I suspected.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Jed... practice does make perfect.
When I was out fallin' large Big Leaf Maples about 2 weeks ago... it was the first time I had been back out fallin' trees in probably 3 years. So I was a little rusty. I'm not the greatest timber faller (will never claim to be either), but was always pretty good at catchin' the far side as I made my second cut. Neeless to say... it took me till about the 5th or 6th tree to get back into the game.
Gary
My dilemma that yields the same result as Gary are smaller trees. If I get too many brushing jobs between felling larger diameter trees, I fell so many smaller trees it takes time to get used to using more saw and aligning the cuts.
