hinge pics

[murphy4trees]

exactly...

 

[murphy4trees]

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Playing with power inside blind container, already have seen some hidden or made cracks etc.
Tweaking both compression and tension each and at max leveraged distance in between as good skills.
Walking edge can feel good as Icarus.
.
Dancing right under overload/barberchair where forces overwhelm constitution of spar/container.
Less amplifying forces in different scenarios, lead to less chance of blindly choosing container that can fail in scenario, as don't fill it so close to top/risking over full; with force.
.
Seems confident gunfighter comes to only drawing lethally when has to, but then cleanly so.
Even then, not a lot of old ones.

 

[murphy4trees]

While I appreciate your words of compassionate caution, this one was a bit of a layup. I was thinking about taking it without a pull line, as there was a wide-open DZ, except for the lower limbs of a nearby small maple that would not have been missed if it got damaged. The tree had a good bit of lean. If the species had been a more reliable hinging wood, I would have tried to turn it under its own weight. Another factor was the height of the cut, per pic here. It was difficult to tell how much hingewood was left as I was getting into the back cut. The cut was about shoulder high, and the back lead interfered withs the vision of the far side of the cut which was completely blocked. The DZ was so wide open and there was no chance of losing the tree to the side lean because of the pull/retainer line, so it wasn't worth stopping to check where the tip was. Pull line was set high, and the direction of pull was nearly perpendicular to the desired lay, in part to offset the side lean, and in part to act as a retainer line. I really didn't expect it to go with that much hingewood. Maybe temperature was a factor as this was the first cut of the day and temps were still below freezing. I heard it "pop" early per the split in the trunk, and kept cutting until the back cut started opening up and bit, then I stepped back and waved for the pull.

Maybe another factor was the amount of pre-tension on the pull line. On any technical fall, I will feel the line as it is getting pre-tensioned so I know what's on there. On this one I never checked because the DZ was so wide open and my old operator was back in the seat. And the pull was mostly off-setting the side lean. I trust that man with my life and know that he will not overload the line, however, he missed all last year so he could be a little rusty.

I've got the cut on POV and tripod-mounted video, so we can take another look at the details. I haven't seen that footage yet.

Yep, it started to barberchair and you stayed with the cut a bit longer. I would guess pulling on it while trying to swing it at the same time was the problem. Ash doesn't like to be swung just an FYI.

I've cut enough ash to know not to trust it

 

[Sven]

Perhaps they’ll make bars with a level on em...

 

[murphy4trees]

awkward cutting angle. unlevel backcut had zero effect here. this was a layup as explained already. I'm more interested in the size of the fibers pulled using the sizwheel

 

[flushcut]

I've cut just shy of 2000 ash tree in the last seven years, EAB is just about gone. I would suggest you face up your tree and use line angle to control any drift instead of trying to steer the tree with the hinge.

 

[Sven]

Looks like the sizwheel engaged well, did what you wanted and the little dutchman probably helped too. What I am looking at is an advanced cut without proper application of the basics. Trees get pulled to the high side of an uneven back cut, so why put that opposite the way you want it to pull?

 

[Sven]

I've cut just shy of 2000 ash tree in the last seven years, EAB is just about gone. I would suggest you face up your tree and use line angle to control any drift instead of trying to steer the tree with the hinge.

Because he’s a maverick of hinges.

 

[murphy4trees]

Looks like the sizwheel engaged well, did what you wanted and the little dutchman probably helped too. What I am looking at is an advanced cut without proper application of the basics. Trees get pulled to the high side of an uneven back cut, so why put that opposite the way you want it to pull?

I make cuts that work. I have repeatedly called for the backcut to be made with little or no stumpshot in technical falls in suburban settings. I pointed out the problems with stumpshot as a lone voice at the house, when nearly all others here were still stuck in the 2 inches of stumpshot for every fall mentality.

I'm well aware of the influences of uneven backcuts. if it had mattered here I would have dialed in the height and level plane of the backcut. it didn't matter. I basically threw the 461 up at or above shoulder height at an awkward position away from my body due to trunk flare.

I knew the backcut was high and not level and knew that it would work. I'm not trying to make job any harder than it has to be to keep the boyscouts from their petty gripes

 

[murphy4trees]

I've cut just shy of 2000 ash tree in the last seven years, EAB is just about gone. I would suggest you face up your tree and use line angle to control any drift instead of trying to steer the tree with the hinge.

I think I know what that means. I definitely DO NOT trust ash hinges. I've seen the swing Dutchman work really well in ash, but still don't trust it with anything of much value at risk. even though this was a low risk scenario. I set a retainer line in the tree, pulling with a skid loader because it was easy and quick insurance. I'm pretty sure the tree fell right to the gun of the notch.

that's always good to check when doing a post fall evaluation

Again the only thing at risk here was some lower limbs on a small maple. I probably could have removed the whole tree and the homeowners would have thanked me

 

[stig]

It is amazing that every time you make a crappy looking cut, you always have a thousand "reasons" and excuses.
Why not simply do it right?

 

[murphy4trees]

Calling a cut "right" shows an in the box mentality. The right cut here is a cut that gets the tree safely to the lay. There is nothing you can say Stig that you haven't said already... so save it... Your criticisms are shallow minded and reflect a lack of complete knowledge. Have you ever had an original thought in all the years you've been cutting trees, or are simply doing what someone else told you to do?

 

[stig]

Of course I'm just a dumb monkey.
I can only mimic what others do.

If I had a god, I would thank it that I had a top notch faller for a mentor and not some "out of the box" type like you.

Now go out and make another crappy cut, then tell us how absolutely " Out of the box" it is.

Have you BTW found a treeforum to show me, where you are not a complete laughing stock?

Just asking.

 

[murphy4trees]

I just showed a sizwheel with 20" + fiber pull in the hingewood and you're telling me to do it "right"... that's the joke!

 

[stig]

Sven said all that needs to be said about that cut.

" Advanced cut without proper application of the basics"

That is you in a nut shell!

 

[murphy4trees]

if you look carefully at the photos you'll see the back lead was the one that needed the attention to detail. that monster was leaning pretty hard straight towards the house.
set 2 pull lines at 65 feet. 2:1 MA with redirect and ground anchor on the skid loader and straight redirect to the 550 with a load of wood, probably weighed 17,000 lbs with the load.

the height of the back cut on the backleaner made a difference and was cut with precision.

we put $6700 in trees on the ground in 6 hours with all the logs stacked on the street for the log loader, hauled 3 loads of firewood logs on the 550, and most of the clean up completed. maybe 10 to 15 manhours of cleanup left


and my price was so good the client canceled another proposal he had already scheduled for 3 of the 4 trees.

that was the first job we had both loaders running at the same time.

So you and Sven can keep your small minded orthodoxy and I'll keep doing what works for me.

 

[stig]

Have you noticed that there is only one of all the members, who brags about how much money he makes on jobs?

 

[murphy4trees]

The "right way" of making a cut is subjective. Money is measurable.

 

[stig]

So is bragging.

Nobody else here brags about money, about their treefelling ability....about anything, really.

The rest of us here just enjoy exchanging ideas and knowledge, without putting ourselves out there as " The World's greatest treeman" ( With bucket access, of course)

We all leave that shit to you.

Might that be why you are a laughing stock here and at every other treeforum, I wonder.

 

[Sven]

What money one makes doesn’t equal their skill in a trade, you are a great example.

We had a substantial job a couple months ago that went super smooth and done in less time than expected, made good money and left the site better than written in the estimate. I asked the client what another company quoted after we were done...double what I had. I obviously need better skills in quoting, but it didn’t mean the other company has better tree skills.

 

[murphy4trees]

Looks like the sizwheel engaged well, did what you wanted and the little dutchman probably helped too. What I am looking at is an advanced cut without proper application of the basics. Trees get pulled to the high side of an uneven back cut, so why put that opposite the way you want it to pull?

The tree does NOT get pulled to the high side of this uneven back cut because that side of the hinge has been completely severed in the swing dutchman. You're not going to read about that in your boy scout manual but keep trying dude. And maybe one day you'll learn to think for yourself.

 

[Sven]

The tree does NOT get pulled to the high side of this uneven back cut because that side of the hinge has been completely severed in the swing dutchman.

No shit dude.

 

[murphy4trees]

What money one makes doesn’t equal their skill in a trade, you are a great example.

We had a substantial job a couple months ago that went super smooth and done in less time than expected, made good money and left the site better than written in the estimate. I asked the client what another company quoted after we were done...double what I had. I obviously need better skills in quoting, but it didn’t mean the other company has better tree skills.

When I got to this job, the client had already accepted a proposal for 3 of the four trees. He asked me to quote the 4th tree and the stump grinding on all 4. While I was there I gave him a quote on all 4 trees. He's a professional landscaper so he knows the business. He jumped all over the quote, so I have a feeling its a lot, though I didn't ask how much I saved him yet. I only bring the money up here to make a point. While you and Stig are stuck in some orthodoxy about how a cut "should" be made, I understand "why" a cut should be made and can adjust the cut according to the scenario. I do what works.

 

[murphy4trees]

No shit dude.

look yourself in the mirror and say that because you are the one that said it did!