hinge wood dynamics
- Thread starter murphy4trees
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Populus tremuloides is the American version, ours is P tremula
There is a hybrid P tremula+tremuloides that worked fantastic for making wooden matches.
So after the War they planted a LOT of it here.
Then somebody invented the plastic lighter and nobody buys matches any more.
Bummer!
There is a hybrid P tremula+tremuloides that worked fantastic for making wooden matches.
So after the War they planted a LOT of it here.
Then somebody invented the plastic lighter and nobody buys matches any more.
Bummer!
Jed
TreeHouser
Cory: Exactly what Marc and Altissimus (SIR!!! I forgot your first name!!! 
) said.
Yeah, just think about really brittle Poplar, and then (if you can stand it, and I don't insist upon it) go back and take another look at that inbred's super annoying sideways image again. Notice the almost individual hair-like fibers in the hinge. I'm a huge fan of this cut on the side leaners.
I completely lost interest in Logger Wade after the "triple-hinge." I think that we all too well know by now that I'm a quintessential PNW xenophobe, but I can just see no advantage at all that could be gained from all that stupid monkey business, but I'm a true bigot with regard to stumpmanship. Who knows?... I could be wrong... It MIGHT be better... I just could never justify the loss of all of that tension wood for some SUPPOSED gain of flexibility on the tension side. In hardwoods, I may be wrong, but I'm not buyin it. Well that's my answer, and I'ma stickin' TOO it. Vote for TRUMP!!! lol.
) said.Yeah, just think about really brittle Poplar, and then (if you can stand it, and I don't insist upon it) go back and take another look at that inbred's super annoying sideways image again. Notice the almost individual hair-like fibers in the hinge. I'm a huge fan of this cut on the side leaners.
I completely lost interest in Logger Wade after the "triple-hinge." I think that we all too well know by now that I'm a quintessential PNW xenophobe, but I can just see no advantage at all that could be gained from all that stupid monkey business, but I'm a true bigot with regard to stumpmanship. Who knows?... I could be wrong... It MIGHT be better... I just could never justify the loss of all of that tension wood for some SUPPOSED gain of flexibility on the tension side. In hardwoods, I may be wrong, but I'm not buyin it. Well that's my answer, and I'ma stickin' TOO it. Vote for TRUMP!!! lol.
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Well you know what his buddy filming it would say about that assessment ..............
Jed
TreeHouser
Stevie!?? Stevie don't know nuthin.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
Good one.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Many tricks don't work best in all wood species/states like cheap/fast growing/thus weaker in trade/punky/weed species or otherwise compromised woods that overload before loading all of helpful force trying to get.
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In Murphy's original vid, i see a faux weakness of extra cut that closes, and then a close of a Step Dutchman.
Any close changes pivot point, taking leverage from load side and giving more to support side>>effect depends some on rotation position of spar
>>1st close is across flex angle of fiber for now firmer flex (started with less resistance)
>>2nd Dutchman close as dead push up fiber column and a more severe, uncompromising change and sudden pulse in leveraged support increase
(but is to one side, so offers other open side of face as path of least resistance, and pivotal change in leverages especially early in fall.
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To theory of all hinges for same load support from same pivot line force the same strength hinge resistance to folding forward
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To theory of spoofing faux support need by temporarily spoofing higher load:support ratio, to then quickly amend back to normal after more hinge strength forced
>>Yin-Yang do this by spoofing load or the equal/opposite: weakness to fake extra support need to get thicker hinge
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Working on drawing of :Any close changes leverages, full face dutchman vs. step dutchman. Close across fiber for re-flexxing hinge or close down fiber column for push back of Dutchman force.
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In Murphy's original vid, i see a faux weakness of extra cut that closes, and then a close of a Step Dutchman.
Any close changes pivot point, taking leverage from load side and giving more to support side>>effect depends some on rotation position of spar
>>1st close is across flex angle of fiber for now firmer flex (started with less resistance)
>>2nd Dutchman close as dead push up fiber column and a more severe, uncompromising change and sudden pulse in leveraged support increase
(but is to one side, so offers other open side of face as path of least resistance, and pivotal change in leverages especially early in fall.
.
>>LET'S MAKE MORE/THICKER!
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To theory of all hinges for same load support from same pivot line force the same strength hinge resistance to folding forward
.
.
To theory of spoofing faux support need by temporarily spoofing higher load:support ratio, to then quickly amend back to normal after more hinge strength forced
>>Yin-Yang do this by spoofing load or the equal/opposite: weakness to fake extra support need to get thicker hinge
.
.
Working on drawing of :Any close changes leverages, full face dutchman vs. step dutchman. Close across fiber for re-flexxing hinge or close down fiber column for push back of Dutchman force.
Mellow
BCMA
Mick!
TreeHouser
#metoo Brett.
I can’t get remotely excited by this stuff.
It’s all species dependent anyway.
Apart from blacking out an entire village for a few hours, and no more than a dozen fences, and that guy operating the temporary traffic lights, and a handful (at most) of cars, I’ve never had a tree land anywhere it shouldn’t.
I can’t get remotely excited by this stuff.
It’s all species dependent anyway.
Apart from blacking out an entire village for a few hours, and no more than a dozen fences, and that guy operating the temporary traffic lights, and a handful (at most) of cars, I’ve never had a tree land anywhere it shouldn’t.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
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i think it is most accurate to say that the geometry/ layout schematic gives the potentials of the mechanix.
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The species and condition limits the amount of stresses that can be held and still perform w/o overload.
>>just as plastic or metal would give same geometry potential forces, but limit to different power bands within the potential.
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Tapered hinge or thick huge may work here not there do to species/condition, but never to exceed the potential limits of the geometry.
Mick!
TreeHouser
But then I probably fell as many trees in a year as Mick does in a quarter of a Century.
Didn’t think it’d be long..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
Didn’t think it’d be long..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Heh.......you're ok.
theTreeSpyder
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 691
Thoughts.
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Between first flex of hinge and when it is fully committed to fall on own is what i refer to as 'first folding'.
>>twilight between stand & fall, during which can temp spoof more support need, to get response of stronger and more persistent birthed hinge. Just as teen temp lifts weights to exercise to more persistent strength in larger man.
>>then extra load or weakness is resolved when tree becomes committed (lifts off of wedge etc.)
So is stronger AND pulses back as 'lighter' in system vs. comparison of regular strength/thickness and faux starting load.
>>The lighter load effect can impact pulse back thru system against load as a support, muting some of leverage increase as tree lunges forward.
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The geometry shows the potential of the system (like a motor's limit), the species/condition limits what can be done within that potential before tree as force conductor is overwhelmed
>>Like same motor potential, connected with lighter gauge wire, can't reach the machine potential because force conducting device overwhelmed when raise amperage to motor.
Potential range is the same, just lesser wire/tree could not handle conducting produced forces.
>>knowing geometric (motor architecture) potential and what system 'gauge' can deliver within that potential can tell what can be done.
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BUT in this 'birthing period' of hinge strength, we can also go the wrong direction and baby hinge 'weaker' instead of stronger by playing differently at same point in timeline. Just as temp faux load increase of leveraged load can pulse support back against load when faux relieved
>>i think rope pull/wedge push not totally forward but 30% effort used as TEMP ballast against side lean, can then allow the side lean to pulse back when faux rope/wedge relieved. Seems better to use all 100% added faux rope or wedge loading to target direction is best to get stronger hinge(if wood can handle thicker flex), with full time not temp ballast built in (tapered hinge) and only pulse back is for support not against efforts.
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Also, i think porting more force thru tapered hinge leverage machine gives that as another multiplier of force used (wedge or rope) that you don't get if directly confront sidelean (giving more nominal effect, not going thru tapered hinge multiplier) and direct pull/push less persistent/is temporary(compared to embedding side load ballast into tapered hinge), nominal fix that skips around leveraged tapered hinge that is more persistent until tearoff.
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We talk of making a tapered hinge, but actually we are just leaving what is already there keeping tree from going where we don't want it to go. This to me is about cutting less active parts, keeping and fortifying the strong until folding w/o overwhelming tree container to split, seize, barberchair etc. in art of production and safety.
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Between first flex of hinge and when it is fully committed to fall on own is what i refer to as 'first folding'.
>>twilight between stand & fall, during which can temp spoof more support need, to get response of stronger and more persistent birthed hinge. Just as teen temp lifts weights to exercise to more persistent strength in larger man.
>>then extra load or weakness is resolved when tree becomes committed (lifts off of wedge etc.)
So is stronger AND pulses back as 'lighter' in system vs. comparison of regular strength/thickness and faux starting load.
>>The lighter load effect can impact pulse back thru system against load as a support, muting some of leverage increase as tree lunges forward.
.
The geometry shows the potential of the system (like a motor's limit), the species/condition limits what can be done within that potential before tree as force conductor is overwhelmed
>>Like same motor potential, connected with lighter gauge wire, can't reach the machine potential because force conducting device overwhelmed when raise amperage to motor.
Potential range is the same, just lesser wire/tree could not handle conducting produced forces.
>>knowing geometric (motor architecture) potential and what system 'gauge' can deliver within that potential can tell what can be done.
.
BUT in this 'birthing period' of hinge strength, we can also go the wrong direction and baby hinge 'weaker' instead of stronger by playing differently at same point in timeline. Just as temp faux load increase of leveraged load can pulse support back against load when faux relieved
>>i think rope pull/wedge push not totally forward but 30% effort used as TEMP ballast against side lean, can then allow the side lean to pulse back when faux rope/wedge relieved. Seems better to use all 100% added faux rope or wedge loading to target direction is best to get stronger hinge(if wood can handle thicker flex), with full time not temp ballast built in (tapered hinge) and only pulse back is for support not against efforts.
.
Also, i think porting more force thru tapered hinge leverage machine gives that as another multiplier of force used (wedge or rope) that you don't get if directly confront sidelean (giving more nominal effect, not going thru tapered hinge multiplier) and direct pull/push less persistent/is temporary(compared to embedding side load ballast into tapered hinge), nominal fix that skips around leveraged tapered hinge that is more persistent until tearoff.
.
We talk of making a tapered hinge, but actually we are just leaving what is already there keeping tree from going where we don't want it to go. This to me is about cutting less active parts, keeping and fortifying the strong until folding w/o overwhelming tree container to split, seize, barberchair etc. in art of production and safety.
.
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
This thread was suggested by the forum.
Here’s the vid link fixed :
Here’s the vid link fixed :
davidwyby
Desert Beaver
Murph’s
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